EPISODE 5: May the Score Be With You

This episode of Cross‑Eyed Bear starts with a questionable Kathleen Turner impression and somehow rockets straight into a galaxy far, far away. Chris and Tristan celebrate May the 4th by unpacking Star Wars obsession, parenting mistakes (taking infants to Return of the Jedi), and why movie scores matter way more than we admit. From John Williams’ iconic fanfares to heated debates over the greatest film composer of all time (spoiler: Alan Silvestri gets a passionate defense), the conversation veers through nostalgia, film nerdery, and hot takes on Spielberg, Lucas, JJ Abrams, and the tragedy of the missing “original” Star Wars cuts.

Along the way: Rogue One redemption arcs, prequel-era disappointments, Hayden Christensen justice, Kurosawa shout-outs, and the realization that one perfect musical cue can emotionally destroy you faster than any plot twist. May the score be with you—always.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I just dipped occasionally into Kathleen Turner territory, which is to say that I sounded undeniably sultry and ridiculously sexy. And it definitely, like anytime I was asking any supplier for anything today, they're like, is it okay if I reduce your goal by 50%?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Yeah, that's on all tracks.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

And I'm like, I mean, yeah, I don't I don't blame you.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I can't ever hear Kathleen Turner without thinking of high fidelity and Jack Black's band being called Kathleen Turner Overdrive and like do that cover of Marvin Gay at the end.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yes. And which was actually outstanding. Like for me, that that was outstanding. Jack Black can occasionally sing.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

I think Jack Black is actually a pretty good singer. Yeah. He's just always trying to be silly with it. But when he's like singing, he's like, damn, you actually cut some pipes on you.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

That shit was great. What a great movie, too. Although it's amazing that they left on the cutting room floor Beverly D'Angelo. Of course, for those of us who grew up in the 80s, our mom, but also our inappropriate mom crush from the vacation movies. And then also Bruce Springsteen, who, as you know and agree, is a over-talent, over-hyped hack sellout who should be ashamed of himself. But surprising though, for a Jersey guy like Cusack to leave him on the cutting room floor.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

In fairness, I'm pretty sure the movie took place in Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

It did, but isn't well no, that's right. Cusack's a Chicago guy. Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

But still a big he's a definitely a Springsteen fan, and he filmed Bruce filmed scenes for that movie, and then left them on the cutting room floor.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

When was that supposed to be in there? Because was it the same scene? Oh, Lisa Bonnet, the Peter Frampton scene.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

He he was on his own. He wasn't with the cast, but it was like one of those like cut-in top five vignette things.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Yeah. That is odd.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Maybe they just did it because maybe credit to QSAC. He didn't want to pull people out of the diagesis, and having like a random cut-in of Bruce Springsteen probably would have done that. So maybe that's why.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Okay. So officially starting, this is episode five of Cross Eyed Bear with Chris and Tristan. It is May the 4th. So May the 4th will be with you. We have to talk Star Wars, but we weren't going to jump into just, you know, obviously it had an overwhelming impact on us personally, me personally. But more I really wanted to talk John Williams because I don't know if anybody ever talks about John Williams, but that cat is actually way more interesting than I realized outside of just being one of the greatest composers. I can't even say of my generation because he's been around for so long. But just the overall impact from how it impacted movies and pop culture after its release in 77.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Are you asking that with the question mark? Do you not have the years ingrained upon your memory?

SPEAKER_02 3:37

You know what's so funny is I was looking at so many different things earlier, and it was it was so John Williams focused that I got all fucked up on the on the years.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

But yeah, 77 and 83 were the original three. And I know this because Jedi was my first movie ever in the theaters when I was a handful of months old.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Okay. Really?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Handful of months old. How'd that how'd that pan out? Did everybody just throw you guys out of the theater?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I mean, that should have been the case because I never would have brought Maya or Harrison when they were just a few months old to a movie. It would have been an inviting disaster, even though, well, Harrison is now the sweetest boy, as you know. And but Maya was easy at that time. She probably would have never cried. That's just asking for it. My parents are like, eh, we want to see Jedi. This kid can either shut the hell up or we'll shut him the hell up. But apparently I didn't cry.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

So Steph, my wife, asked me recently if our three-year-old is ready to go see a movie. So I go back and like my my archive and my photos. I was like, I know I took pictures, my first my older two kids, like when they took movies, uh, went to their first movie, and it was both five and six. And I'm like, that feels good. And I know how I was when I was younger. I know how he is just, you know, every day. And if I took him at his age right now to a movie, forget about it. Like I'd be chasing him all over the theater. I couldn't even imagine.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I think three's still too much in the danger zone. I think four is possible depending on the kid, and five is pretty safe space. And I mean it can work before, but I think just to be safe and to be considerate of other theater patrons that earliest four most kids five. Some kids, I mean, never shouldn't should just never go to the theater because they're not actually fully functioning human beings and don't belong in polite company.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Oh my god, it's so true though. Yes, I I know a few of those characters.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

So, yeah, so New Hope came out in 77, followed by Empire at 80 and Jedi at 83.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, and the reason I got all messed up, if if you'll forgive me, was it was because I was doing so much research on John Williams specifically, and obviously he was already an established composer by this point. 77. What really solidified him, or what they're saying solidified him, was obviously Star Wars. And then same year, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And then in 1978, he did Superman. So that was where the 78 came from.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

It's on a it's on a very short list of he just did the the the the theme to Superman, right? He didn't do the whole score, he did the the opening theme, and then Jerry Goldsmith did the whole score, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Right, yeah. He was the uh he was credited with the definitive fanfare. So yeah, he did the opening theme. But I was over here super naive, thinking I was like, okay, so I know him from Jaws and I know him from Star Wars, and then obviously he linked up with John Hughes at some point and started doing amazing movies with him. I mean, home alone. Come on. And I'm just like, I've always known him as this composer. The guy was like not only Juilliard educated, that's not the surprising part. The surprising part is he was a jazz musician in the 50s that used to record with like Stan Getz and Dave Brubeck and guys like that, like legit jazz musician with his own solo albums. And I don't know why that surprised me so much, but it's just like one, the 50s, God, the guy's 94 years old.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Like, I didn't think he was still he was recording anything in the 50s, let it like when he's getting this established in the late 70s, 80s.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

I'll give him credit. I go back and forth with John Williams. You may not be surprised knowing how antagonistic of a catalyst I can be, but I go back and forth with is John Williams actually the greatest composer? And I mean, would he when you think about like marches, when you think about like fanfares, when you think about like those rousing movements, I don't know if anyone does it better. Other pieces I think he's a lot weaker on. But for these films, he was great. And yes, certainly something you certainly could never say about John Williams is longevity of career and still being at a high level. Because like even you look at the the scores to the Harry Potter films, and that theme was outstanding. It was perfect, perfect for the film. So he's been great and has always been great.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

And I think that that's where it's really interesting is he creates these super unique themes that are just so iconic to the film franchises that like the rest of the score could almost go fully unnoticed. Like everybody knows Star Wars, the letters shoot up from the bottom, it's got all the story going on, and it's just his big loud orchestra like intro to Star Wars, and it's been used in every single movie. But then he has Indiana Jones, he has obviously Harry Potter. Like these you hear him and it's like instantly recognizable as the entire it like transports you're just like this is Harry Potter and feeling nothing but nostalgia. That's that's is he the greatest film composer of all time? For you? I want to say yes, but not I want to say yes because of the what he creates from like a like a nostalgia standpoint. Like I will always know his scores. It feels like you can even tell his scores if you don't even know he's the one doing it. Because he's got it it's an orchestra, but it still feels like John Williams. Kind of like the same way. Oh my god, I am so upset right now. Oingo Boingo.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Danny Elfman.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Danny Elfman, good god, Danny Elfman. Danny Elfman I might actually put in the camp of possibly one of the.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

You always know a Danny Elfman score. Danny Elfman's very unique. That's not to credit. I love Oingo Boingo. I'm not a Danny Elfman film composer fan.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Really?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

No.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

That opening that opening song from Beetlejuice doesn't get you every time.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

No.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Oh. I just don't even know what to do with this information. If I'm gonna be completely honest.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

You should not be surprised, is what you should do with it.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I know you're a big Han Zimmer guy.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

So I was thinking about this over the weekend. And John would definitely be in my top five film composers of all time, but he wouldn't be one or two. And I thought about this. Hans Zimmer, definitely a very strong number two. But just like with John Williams, where John is so great at, you know, the rousing movements, the fanfares, the marches. You think about Hans big orchestral, moody pieces, and he's the best at them. But he has his certain notes that he's that he's great. For me, the best film composer of all time, Alan Silvestri.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

And I think that that's where like he's not a household name. That doesn't even ring any bells for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Exactly. So it's the same way as you always know a John Williams score. Yeah. You always know a Hans Zimmer score.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

You always know a Harrison Ford film.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Is that Harrison Ford or is it just the movies?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

It's it's always Harrison Ford, and that's not a bad thing. You know I love Harrison Ford, but it's always Harrison Ford. Gary Oldman can play any kind of role. Yeah. Any role and play it at a high level and bring something really, really, really great to it. He's an incredible actor. Alan Silvestri, whether it is whether it is the march that needs to get you motivated and like rouses inspiration, like the theme song in Back to the Future, where you're getting ready to hit 88 and hit the clock tower, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Or if it's the moment that Tom Hanks is finally escaping the island and Wilson is lost in the storm. And amazing, obviously, what Zemeckis could do with an inanimate object, but how much apiece the music is and how tender and like sensitive and heartbreaking it is. And the fact that Silvestri can do everything in between for me, hit all the notes and hit them hard. I mean, my guy scored Predator. I just watched that for the first time, uh, for the the most for the first time in a handful of years with with Harrison with my son. And I remember thinking, like, oh my god, this is Alan Silvestri with the score. It's so moody and dark and sinister. But he can do it all, man. And is so it's the versatility about him that it's the versatility and the versatility at a high level at every single note.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

I'm gonna give the guy a fair shake. Okay, I need to listen. I've heard his scores, obviously, but like I said, he's not a household name. It's not so obviously him when he's doing it. So like nothing immediately jumps out.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

But you look at him, and whether it's Predator, the Abyss, Father of the Bride, the Bodyguard, the uh Avenger movies, Ready Player One, obviously, we just talked about all the Zemeckis movies, Forrest Gump, Contact. Uh I mean, the guy just hits all the notes and hits them all well.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Question for you.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

How important to a movie being good is the score?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

It's a very, very good question. Because you know, me being a film guy, and I was a film major. Certainly part of that was studying silent film. And for me, a great movie should be great, even if it doesn't have any score playing, and that's really tough. Have you ever done that? Like, watch a movie. There's there's ways you can do it, but watch a movie without the without any music, or just have the sound turned off and see how long it'll keep your attention. No subtitles, no sound, to where you're just watching the images and see how long it keeps and captures your attention. It should still be great, but then movies become all-time because you name me one all-time film for you that doesn't have a great score.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

No country for old men.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Alright, good call.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah. That was why I asked, because that is recognized to me, but I I think even fairly popular. Is that one of your favorite films of all time? You specifically said without a score.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

I'm saying pure no.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Oh, oh, oh, my mistake. No country for all men, though, doesn't have any music. You're right. It is a great movie. It is great, and it is one of the only examples that comes to mind of a movie that didn't have any kind of music and really stood on its own.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

It's also one of the only movies the Cohen brothers did that's actually good.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Oh, fuck that. That is okay. That's continue. Continue forward. Hold on. I need to just process that entire statement. Incorrect. Anyways, favorite movie of all time. I mean, we've talked about it. Like it's almost you have to separate it because I have the ones that are just so steeped in nostalgia that you love them, which is kind of, I mean, I'll go back to the point of this episode, which is Star Wars. Sure. Love all of those. But more recently, I used to tout it as like the best movie that's come out in the last decade.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Is Arrival with Amy Adams, Jeremy Renner, Forrest Whitaker. And it is just because it is it's such a slow burn, and then it just punches you right in the face in the last five minutes. Like, I know I've told you this before, but I can't watch that movie and not just completely like Kim Kardashian Ugly Cry at the end of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

It's just like if you're a parent, you can't see that movie and not cry, in my opinion. Or you don't have a soul, and even though I don't have a soul, I still cry.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, I mean, you know, some oil leaks out.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Exactly. But excellent score. And I don't know as much about Johan Johannes Johansson, but I know that he does, he's done a lot with Villeneuve, and his scores are I mean, excellent score.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

But I do think that that movie could hold up without it because it's it's a really it's not an in-your-face score at all. It's really it's moody kind of kind of lower.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Watch watch the last third of that movie with this without the sound on, and tell me if it still rips your heart up apart.

unknown 17:23

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

No, yeah, you're right. I will okay. I will concede that the first hour, 15 hour and a half, you could probably do without the score. But that score towards the end, that especially that last five minutes, that that is where your heart gets ripped out.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

It does.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah. And it is so rooted in the music.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

So Williams is he is incredible, and he would be on my top five list. I do think he can't hit all the notes, but the ones that he hits, I mean, he plays them better than almost anyone. He does. With Star Wars, something that I was thinking about over the weekend, because obviously there's been there's this, there's obviously the Star Wars that everyone, at least people in our age and older, grew up with and grew up loving, and then there's what it's become, and then the intermediary transitional phase when I was in high school and when you were probably like starting high school or the end of middle school.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

I'm not that much younger.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I mean, I am ancient, it's fine. What's the moment that you love the most in Star Wars, any film, and where were where have you been most let down by Star Wars?

SPEAKER_02 18:47

So it it's it changes quite a bit because the younger I was, the more it was all Return of the Jedi. Everything was return of the Jedi. Obviously, Endor had a big the force moon of Endor had a had a big piece of that. He walks, obviously. I mean, you're a kid, you you kind of dude.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Wicked was life for me. I thought I was gonna I thought it was wicked.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah, it is like that whole I I loved that Luke in all black, you know, fighting Darth Vader with the Emperor, you know, the lightning. It's it all that's so good. And I'm totally one of those people that as I get older I start to realize that Empire really probably is the best of the three. It is like and I didn't feel that way. I thought it was when I was a kid, I thought it was long. Like, how did we get from Hoth to Cloud City? And it just felt like it was really long, and it not disjointed necessarily, but just like I don't know. I think that was it. It was like I don't feel like I ever made it to Cloud City when I was younger. But that movie favorite part, obviously, going on solo going down the improv line. It's you know, it's on t-shirts, most famous thing ever. That's great. I don't know. I don't it's it's tough because it's like an actual very specific scene. No, I don't think I I don't think I have one.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

You've never been let down by the series.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Oh no, no, no, no. I meant like from a very specific moment I don't have a favorite.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Oh, you don't okay, you don't have a favorite.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah, being let down by the series I mean obviously when they re-released the original three with all the extra CGI and now you can't find the original ones. I know like that's a massive letdown. Like and a lot of people have well, a lot of people. Steph has asked me, she's like, why'd they start in the middle? And I mean, we're professionals at that. But like, why'd they start in the middle? And it's like I don't know, that's just where the story started.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Just because Lucas has always, I'll give him credit, he's always had an eye forward to capturing interest, and let's just be honest, making money.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

And starting something that was episode four immediately makes people like, where where's episode three? What where's episode one, too? Did I miss this? Yeah. And on automatically makes people intrigued and interested. And at a time that it was a lot easier to intrigue people and make them interested, by the way. Yeah. But he certainly did that.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

I somebody told me at one point, I don't know if there's any validity to this, and I refuse to look it up again. That it was it was it were tech reasons, like he couldn't actually create what he wanted to create with the original three. I don't like that narrative. I I actually prefer that he just wanted to start. Okay. Let's just let's just move on from that, because I agree. It it is better how it started.

unknown 21:59

Oh

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Second biggest letdown. So the origin the episodes one, two, three, so the later three. Hayden Christensen did so terrible in that role.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

You know what's funny? I've come to actually think he's a halfway decent actor.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

I think he is too. I just think in those specific those two, he did so bad.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Any scene that he's with Natalie Portman, he's terrible. He makes her worse. Yeah. And I think she actually was a good actress and is is still a good actress, but in that those films, Yikes agreed with you.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Like, was it the casting choice or was it the acting?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Or like I I think it's I think it's neither. I mean it's both, but it's neither. I think it's the direction because he didn't have the experience. So like before before before clones came out, he was in this movie called Life is a House.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

With Kevin Klein. His performance was actually really good. That's a r that's a rough watch, especially yet again as a parent. But actually pretty good film. His performance is really good. I think it's directing. And Lucas, at that point in his career, and how much he was look thinking about the special effects, and how much it was about the special effects and creating, trying rather, trying to create the spectacle or recreate the spectacle of the original trilogy with the prequels. You could tell that he wasn't directing. And if you're talking about a Samuel L. Jackson that just knows how to act, doesn't need direction, even Ewan McGregor at that point, you know, Ewan from train spotting knew how to act, didn't need direction to figure it out to find it. Great. Ian McDermott with the Emperor with glee and joy in his heart, just was chewing up scenery left and right and doing a great job with it. Yeah. But Hayden still needed directing. You could see it, and he did not get it.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

He did he did not, and that is abundantly clear. Because you're right, he was supported by a really strong cast around him. Christopher Lee, I think, goes a little unknown.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

I'm sorry for not mentioning Sir Sir Christopher Lee.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

I would apologize even though he's not here to hear it. That that man, what was he in? Like 130, 100 and something films.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I think he's been in more. He was at least in 130 Dracula exploitation films and hor hammer films. Yeah. That's not counting the rest of the oeuvre.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah, no, I mean Forever the Villain. But yeah. Honor can't forget to mention him. But again, surrounded by amazing actors and actresses, and just just absolutely flopped. So clearly, I agree with you though. It was a it was directing because I've seen him in other things. The guy's not a bad actor.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

No, he's not.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

So that was a that was a disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

He did a good job, in my opinion, in in the Obi-Wan series.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

And that's the thing, because he he did. And he was also in he was in Ahsoka.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

And he did great in Ahsoka. And it's it totally was just those two films.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

He's learned how to act on his own, but at that time he didn't have it. Like I said, even Portman, she's good-ish in parts of the movie, but I think that with how much she had to play opposite him and how much he was still clearly unrefined, it brought him, it brought her down. Because like obviously, you know, her what her first film role was in Leon, the professional, and she absolutely murdered that role. You've seen that, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Okay. Yeah. She murdered that role. Yeah. But then when she's playing against him, it's just bringing the whole, it's kind of bringing the whole thing down. That's not to put the failure of those films at Hayden Christensen's feet. It's not. It's not fair to, it's really not. It's to put him at the feet of the failure at the feet of George's feet.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

They were I don't want to say too ambitious, because I They were just poorly executed. I actually think from a plot standpoint and a storyline standpoint, they were solid. I think that they were just really poorly executed.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

I think that they were poorly executed. I think that he needed more and thoughtful collaborators. Like when he gave up directing duties on two and three, when George is able is just doing executive producing and story, it's great. From our conversation. If my guy could just be the story and actually have someone else write the books.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

That's that is why the talisman series is peak.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

I think it'd be a lot better. And the same with George, he's not a great screenwriter at all. You look at some of the lines in one through three. Oh my god. It's oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Oh, they're so cheesy.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

It's awful. But he's not a great director either. He's not.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

No. He he obviously lightning in a bottle. I wouldn't even say that. No, no. He struck gold with Star Wars. Not lightning in a bottle, because it he clearly it's it's kept going. It hasn't staying power. But you're right. Like when he was hands-off, I think it's been better. I actually think the guy that's directed anything Star Wars the best is John Favreau.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

I agree and disagree. I mean, I agree. I love Favreau, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I've been with Favreau since Swingers.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Low-key is just one of the greatest, too.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And Chef is one of my favorite films of all time. I want to see him do an actual Star Wars film, not a not a Star Wars adjacent storyline. I want to see him actually dig into something from the sky. You know what? Here. I'll just tell you what one of my biggest disappointments is. Yeah. Because one of my biggest disappointments for sure is the the prequel series as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

For sure. But another one is the fact that they still haven't, in any form, animated anything. I would take anything. Made a film of Shadows of the Empire. And I know we've talked about this.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

We have. You had me read it.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Excellent. Excellent. Let John Favreau do Shadows of the Empire. Yeah. That would be incredible. Let him have and do it animated or something. That's fine. I'm okay with that. But bring back Luke Leia and show that story that happens in between Empire and Jedi. Bring Dash Rendar and Prince Shizor and all of that cast of characters that too many people still don't know to life. That's what I need. But I I do agree with you. Favre is clearly.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Yeah, I know. He's he's figured it out, he's unlocked it. I don't think JJ Abrams did near as well as he Oh dear God. Which is sad because he's so good, but like I is JJ Abrams good?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yes. What all films of his are great? Super 8. Is that great?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

I loved it. Okay. I think he did I know they're like just like hokey like action movies, but I do think he did great with the redo on Star Trek. With Chris Pine.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I'll give you the first one. Okay. Agreed on that. Yeah. It was uh excellent.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And then uh did you see Oh why my it was part of the Clover the Cloverfield series. It was the one with John Goodman when they're in the bunker.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

He didn't direct that. JJ Abrams directed that. No, he didn't. Am I fucking he executive produced it?

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Okay. No. But that's my point. He's still at his fingerprints, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

He's like Lucas. He has great ideas, and he is a good he's good at collaborating, bringing people together, and spotting people for talent. He is. As Lucas was. But I don't think he's a great director either.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

And this is where I get all like back not backwards, but I I see these people's names attached to these projects, and I never clarify if they're just producing or if they're directing it. Because obviously.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

It's an important distinction, man.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Oh I I do know this, and I just don't do a good enough job with my uh with my homework. Because yeah, if he's just producing it, granted, the guy's got a knack for picking projects and executing them, but yeah, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to go through his directoral credits because everything I'm looking at right now he was producing.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

What's his great yeah, what films, great films has he directed?

SPEAKER_02 31:31

God, it looks like he's literally just a producer. Come on, JJ Abrams. He's directed 20 movies. That's actually but yeah, it's Star Wars. So I'm not sure what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Interesting, random, wildly esoteric fact that connects Harrison Ford. Do you know what I think JJ Abrams' first or at least first big break in Hollywood was? No, he was a writer on the film Regarding Henry. You've seen have you seen it?

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yes. Way back in the what, the early 90s? Yep. Young JJ Abrams, I think he actually was a I he was a co-writer. He has a he has a screenwriting credit on that regarding Henry. Him and Harrison were linked well, well, well early. But like Lucas, I think he's the same. I think he's the same. He's got great ideas. He understands how to people bring great people together and put them in good spots, usually. Usually. Rise of Skywalker being wildly outside of that statement.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Why is that? I okay. Hold on.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Who's who's the rub in that one? Because I think Daisy Ridley was great.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

The f no, d to be fair, Disney and JJ Abrams are the rub in that one.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Oh, okay. So we're not talking cast.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

We're still he's still he still brought together a good ensemble.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

He maintained the good ensemble, to be fair, that he brought together in the first place, yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Right, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

But the film itself is yikes.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

They were good to see in theaters, and I don't know if I've ever done a rewatch.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Force Awakens remains fun. And actually, The Last Jedi, that's gotten better for me with repeat viewings.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

And that's the Okay, yeah, yeah. Jeez Louise.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

The Rise of Skywalker. That's the only one I do any rewatches on. But yeah. I don't know why. I mean, truly, like, they're not that good. I'd rather I'd probably rather watch episode 1, 2, 3 before any of those.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

You know, Sith is definitely it's gotten better for me as time's gone along. I actually do like that film, and I think it's I think it's a good film. Hating Christians and acting in that one is still a problem, but somehow it doesn't for me, it doesn't defeat like the Mustafar scene being outstanding, even though his acting in that not good. Not good. Not good.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

No, but Ewan McGregor was there to hold it together.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Dude, Anakin, I've got the high ground. He's just he killed that scene. He took it for both of them.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

He did. You are the chosen one.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Exactly. It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

It is that's actually didn't it wasn't that long ago that I did a rewatch on that one.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

So those are my letdowns. You know what my like bright spot has been? This and this metamorphoses, because for me, it's the first film I remember watching was Empire. And it's the scene in Dagaba with Yoda training Luke, and that will always have wonder for me in my heart for thinking about that. But I love being wrong and changing my opinion. And over the last few years, I've changed my opinion on Rogue One dramatically to where when I've the first two times I saw it, I'm like, this sucks. I am not into this. What what stop trying to make money? And it was just cynicism on cynicism. And dude, now I think it might be my I think it might be like my third favorite film in the series.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Yeah, I was never in the the cynic camp on that one. That one came out and I was just like, this is refreshing. It was it truly was like there's a war going on. Like it felt like there was a war going on. And there weren't there weren't the traditional heroes. It was It was great. I thought that they did, I thought it was so necessary to tie just the I know it's the original see the original trilogy, and then what did we what did we call in one, two, and three? The prequel trilogy. So to tie those two together, super necessary, because again, we started in the middle, none of it made sense, and then you finished Revenge of the Sith, and nothing was cleared up at all except for where Darth Vader came from. Newsflash everybody, it was Anakin Skywalker. You know, for just in case you didn't know, spoiler alert. But I thought Rogue One was great. I I love it was that Diego Luna.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Diego Luna's very good, but for me, I mean, I enjoy the whole thing, I enjoy the end. I actually love what they did with Darth because originally I saw it. I'm like, now you've jumped the shark. Now it's just this is terrible.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

But now I actually love that. But for me, dude, that scene with Ben Middelson and Matt and Maz Mickelson. Oh my god, that's just master class in acting. Yeah. Just master class. It's wonderful. And anytime Ben Middelsen is on there, like that dude is such a great enemy, such a great bad guy.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Which one, which I mean, they had a couple scenes together. The one at the opening.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

The one where they're in the field, and one of your talents, it's a peaceful life. And just that whole thing, like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah, and his wife pops up with the guy, and he's like, Oh, back from the dead.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

That whole thing was great.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

All right, guys, we get it. You're amazing actors. Thank you. Cut it out.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

I don't think Mad Mickelson gets his due either, though.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

He doesn't. I need to see Dude in a in a few tent pole films. Like, he is such a great actor.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

It was slight divergence, but like, could you think of anybody more like a weirder substitute when Johnny Depp got canceled to so okay, get this. That's do you realize that they Johnny Depp gets canceled in the Dumbledore series for Harry Potter?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

And that's who they picked to replace him. And they didn't even try. They didn't even try to make him look like, you know, the his hair depths was all white and everything. He had two different color eyes. They didn't do any of that. They're just like, nope, this is just a whole different human. Look what three years does. Like poor guy.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

He's not gotten a fair shake in Hollywood. He just hasn't.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

No. And he i I think it's coming though, because I feel like there's other guys that it took a while. Like Christoph Waltz, it took him a minute to finally like.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Did we fucking talk about him as Roland Duchane?

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Fuck no, but that's a good call.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Right?

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Yeah, that's a really good call. Tell me he would nail that.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

No, he absolutely would. Yeah. It's tough because it's just like him or Ewan McGregor.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I kinda I mean, yes, both would be great, but like the pathos and like the silent stoicism of Maz, like, oh my, he would obliterate that role.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

God damn it. Alright, well. We have to go back and redo that whole thing now because definitely a good call.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

But for me, like coming around on Rogue One and like actually realizing it's a really, really good film with a lot of great performances and a great story. Very well done. Has been a real joy for me after being after being made to be a cynic with Star Wars, because dude, the summer leading up, like the year leading up to the summer of 99 and Phantom Menace.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

And I was just like, this is this is just too perfect, right? This is like not fair, this this bountiful joy to be in the prime of my life, quote unquote, and to have a Star Wars movie coming out. Okay. And watching it and just thinking to myself, like, am I actually feeling disappointed right now? And it never really got, it never really improved enough. It never got better. I mean, like I said, I do at this point like Sith, but I don't know, it didn't redeem it, and that sucks.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah. No, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Outside of the pod racing scene, which will forever be iconic to me, but it's a great set piece, but it's not anything like it's not anything like the other other other ones in the classic ones in the film. It's not. It's too reliant upon special effects and spectacle.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Well, that's those whole all three of the prequel movies were reliant on that.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

That was that was they went in. That was why they redid the original three, added in all the CGI and everything, and then and the original three CGI was added before the prequels.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Or am I mixing up my Yeah, no, because when they released them, re-released them in the theaters, they had added scenes to the extent that like with The New Hope, they added back in that Jabba scene where Han solo's walking around him and they had the CG Jabba, yeah, which at the time, even at the time, looked like garbage.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

And I remember thinking, like, you've got all of ILM working on nothing else but this. And in 1989, they were able to do with the Abyss what they did, and this is what you're putting on screen for Star Wars. So, yes, they added them in in the re-releases leading up to Phantom Menace.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

They don't, because what you don't know is that George Lucas, as he's been doing for the last 40 years, goes around to everyone's house, breaks into the house, uh, takes the tape, unspools it, whatever he must do. If it's a laser disc, he he scratches it with his sharpened teeth or fangs, uh, if you will, to where that it's unwatchable because he doesn't want them to exist any longer.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

I mean, Spielberg basically did that with ET as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

So I know that hurts to think about. That still hurts to think about because Spielberg I like to think of as a more of a purist. But you are correct, and it hurts.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Fortunately, I don't think he's done that with anything else, just I think he did it with close encounters as well, right? Oh shit, I think he did. That would oh my god. So I don't know. An original VHS locked in a vault somewhere would be worth something. Lucas hasn't got to it.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

So just in starting to look towards closing, I wanted to bring up one additional thing, because I can't help it with the film guy in me. For those who are not familiar with the films of Akira Kurosawa, watch especially The Hidden Fortress and tell me how Lucas just hacked that when making Star Wars and New Hope. And I bring this up, A, to shine a light on one of my favorite filmmakers of all time, Kurosawa. But to be fair, he did get credit paid by some of these guys because in the 1980s, after he was not the same person he was in the 1960s, but still wanted to make films, the films he was making at that time got bankrolled by George Lucas, Francis Ford Coppola, and Martin Scorsese, to be fair to those guys paying homage to their dude. So, but watch The Hidden Fortress as back in college, I tried to make my wife, girlfriend at the time, watch it and be like, see, that's C3PO. I mean, could it be any more of a blatant hack? She made it through about 20. Five minutes that film was before telling me, like, that's great, Chris. I believe you, I'm done. But I would highly encourage anyone to watch that.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

That is pretty much mine and Steph's relationship with Star Wars. She makes it through about 25 minutes, and then if she doesn't just full on get up and walk away, she's just like on my I understand. I will stop trying.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

With that being said, done we are. Leave you must.