EPISODE 3: Casting the Tower: Gunslingers, Flanagan, and the McConaissance

In Episode 3 of Cross‑Eyed Bear, Tristan and Chris finally turn their squinty eyes toward Stephen King’s The Dark Tower—the sprawling, genre‑bending epic that dares to ask, “What if a western, fantasy saga, and existential nightmare all shared the same universe?” They break down what the series is, why it’s so beloved (and occasionally exhausting), and why shoving 4,500 pages into a single movie was maybe… not the best idea.

From debating Stephen King adaptations (The Shining, Doctor Sleep, and why Mike Flanagan is basically King’s chosen one) to obsessively fantasy‑casting Roland Deschain and his ka‑tet, the conversation spirals into pop‑culture nerdery, bold opinions, and more A‑list actors than the budget could ever afford. Expect strong takes, questionable confidence, and at least one perfectly serious discussion about casting a sentient, homicidal monorail.

It’s guerrilla‑style podcasting, fueled by ’80s and ’90s pop culture, bad movie decisions, and the belief that with enough points on the back end, Spielberg will eventually return your texts. Long days and pleasant nights—and stay classy, San Diego?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Here we are. Episode three of Kross-Eyed Bear.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Krause-eyed bear?

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Gonna edit that out.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

No, don't. Keep it in we like we like the the reality stuff, right? Yeah. This is, you know, like gorilla style podcasting here.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Absolutely. Cross-eyed bear with me, Tristan, and the robot Chris, who doesn't like to introduce himself.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I see it not necessary for such human formalities and frivolties.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I agree, but I if there's one person that told me, I think every person's told me, which is weird. All of our fans. So yeah, it's this is gonna be our last chance to record before I leave, which I'm really excited about, and I'm trying to hold it together and professionally finish off this week before I am completely off the grid, which is good. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

So, you know, people have been asking all these fans that you keep promoting this to, and surprisingly, there are people coming up to me now out of nowhere, which is because of your promotion. So even though we've not found our rhythm yet, here we are. But asking asking what the through line is, asking what this thing is about, right? And it's kind of whatever the fuck we want to talk about, right? But I'd say if there's a through line, it's it's pop culture. And it frequently does go into it seems like it's frequently gonna go into the 80s and 90s, but it's gonna have tendrils and threads that go around, maybe back into God knows where, and maybe into forward into the modern day, like we certainly did with with both Lilith and Buffy. So maybe it is like how pop culture of the recent past connects to today. So maybe that's the through line.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

I mean, I think that that's a pretty accurate description considering this particular episode. We're gonna finally dive into the Dark Tower, which, as you know, started. I'd have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure it was started in the 70s. It was. And then the Dark Tower finished what, 2008, 10, something like that?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, like like some 2009 in that vicinity.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah. So I know Award listens to this now. This is specifically for you, my friend. He has no idea what we're talking about. So quick 30-second synopsis. It is Stephen King's epic. It's about a lone gunslinger who's traveling through a strange and crumbling world. He's looking for the a legendary tower that basically holds reality together. It's depending on how you look at it, there's seven core books, and then an eighth book added later, The Wind Through the Keyhole. Some people don't consider that part of the series. I liked the book, so I will. And it tops out at about 4,500 pages. So it's it truly is an epic. It's a slog. Not a slog, sorry. It's a long, long road to get to the end. But it is, with the exception of your dislike of Wizard and Glass, it is quite a quite a story.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

So a couple points there, yes. It's it's not a slog outside of Wizard and Glass, which I can't believe that plenty of fans of this series say it's their favorite, because I have strong patience and it taxed me mightily. But okay, so here's the thing about Stephen King. Absolutely possibly one of the very best storytellers in of our generation, of the generation before. Guy just knows how to tell stories. And when you see how many of them have been adapted for for film, you know my favorite medium, of course. It it lends to it. Like people take it, people want to, people want to read, people want to watch the things that he creates. That being said, my guy definitely has diary of the typewriter. Like his editor clearly has been a yes man since day one, because when you look at when you look at the dark tower, which the last, the last, the, the titular book in the series and the final book in the series, it's 840 pages. And this is coming after six books. Yeah. It's it's excellent storytelling, but it's so many words. It's so many words. So an epic to be sure, a lot of lot great stories, but yes, a lot of words.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yes. And the one thing you were talking about with film, especially. You look at Stephen King, and there's nobody can really translate it in a film. It just doesn't happen, and it doesn't happen well.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Translate what? His works, or are you talking about the Dark Tower specifically?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

His works specifically, just as an aggregate. Like we look at The Shining, great movie, terrible translation of the book. The the Stanley Kubrick one specifically.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Wait a minute. If it's a specific, if you're talking about a specific interpretation of the book, yes. But if you look at the themes, like if you're looking for literal translation of the books of the book, yes, obviously it's not. Right. Which is why King so famously derided it and disavowed it, and etc. But if you think about the themes remaining true and Kubrick still staying true to that, you know, the feelings that that Nicholson's well, and see, I can't even say I can't even say think of the character's name, because to me it's always Jack Nicholson. I can't even think of uh Torrance, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

It's still Jack, it's Jack Torrance.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Jack Torrens. Alcoholism and isolation, you know, generational abuse and neglect. Like you think about all of those themes that King was writing about in the book, and Kubrick delivered them beautifully, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

He he couldn't he couldn't stick the ending if you're comparing it to the the actual novel of it, to the point where when they did release Dr. Sleep, however many years later, they had to fix they had to fix that in the ending of Dr. Sleep, which is it a spoiler if the book's been out since like the 70s? Can I spoil this? Okay, so The Shining, the the hotel is supposed to blow up. Correct. Clearly that didn't happen. Jack Nicholson dies in the snow, and Shelley Duval and Danny Torrance leave with I was gonna call him Speedy Parker. That's his funny enough, that's a name in a different Stephen King book, Speedy Parker. But yeah, so Dick Halloran, they leave with Dick Halloran and the hotel remains standing. In the book, it blows up. At the end of Dr. Sleep, they had to fix that with the hotel and they blew it up.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

So it's funny you mentioned Doctor Sleep because unintentionally or intentionally knowing you, it's a perfect it's gonna be a perfect segue when we get to talking about our topic. But Dr. Sleep, of course, was directed and adapted by Mike Flanagan, who has become Stephen King's, you know acolyte for the modern day for adapting his films. I think the first one that he did was was Gerald's Game, which was, for those of you who haven't seen it, absolutely outstanding work. I think it was what, a Netflix, Netflix film, which started like his his association, Mike Flanagan's with Netflix. I think that's right. Starring uh Carlo Gugino, who would become part of his cast of characters and things to come, but outstanding film, kind of underappreciated in my opinion. Eventually he got into doing Doctor Sleep, and he retconned what you just talked about with the Overlook Hotel, but did it with where what he presented to King. King was like, Yeah, this is this is great. This is an excellent way of handling this situation, so it still stays, you know, it handles the book and the themes of the book, but also still understands that there is a film that most people know the shining to be, and not that mid-1990s TV series trash that they made that Mick Garrett directed, that I think was a lot more true to the book.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

It was so frustrating because it followed the book exactly and it could not have been worse. Could not have been worse. So I guess pick your poison, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Mike Flanagan, though, has been tapped, well, and given certainly Stephen King's blessing, to adapt the Dark Tower into a TV series.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

And he's doing it right. He's doing because, like we said at the beginning, 4,500 pages, eight books if you count them all. And it's it they tried to do this a few years back, like 10 years ago, 12 years ago, and they tried to shove this entire saga story epic into like 90 minutes with Makanahe and Idris Elba. And it was I guess I I need to like see it without associating it with the book because it just like it literally just saw red the whole time. I was so mad. But he's doing it right.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

He's doing, I think, three to five episodes plus two movies, which so yeah, he's they're planning on it being like five seasons plus two feature films. Yes. Oh, I thought it was gonna be more like it, where it was just like a few As I've read it, five seasons, and they did not I've not heard how many episodes per season, but five seasons plus two feature films. And that which is the stories deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Well, yeah, but the stories deserve it. There's so much, there's so many. It is nearly Star Wars-esque in the amount of different areas they are, the the scene changes, just the undertaking. It's it's massive, and it yeah, I think that that's actually appropriate, and it makes me so excited to hear that. And yeah, Flanagan's the guy to do it because he's done well with Stephen King in the past. He's done well with everything else he's done for Netflix, follow the house of Usher. Was it he was haunting on Hill House, right? Yep. Yeah, so clearly, clearly has some chops in the horror realm. Which this is not a horror, it's a it's a fantasy western, all sorts of it's a genre blend, but I don't think horror really touches on it. But the reason I was so excited about today, all of that aside, but all of that factored in, I don't think this show has yet been cast, and I have some very strong opinions about who should play the roles of I have the cotet of 19, which are it's basically the main gunslinger, and then his three companions. There's his allies, there's his antagonists. There's there's a lot of characters in this book, but I know we won't be able to get into all of them, but I think we can go through some of the main ones. Because yeah, there's he's so descriptive that I feel like we can actually like I can personally visualize who I would expect in these roles, and I'm sure you are very much in the same boat. Yep. So let's let's jump in. Okay. Who should we talk about first? I feel like starting with anybody but Roland De Shane is that would be a misstep. So Roland DeShane, quick synopsis, last gunslinger of Gilead, driven by an all-consuming obsession to reach the Dark Tower. What what I will say, he it gets mentioned constantly enough. I feel like if it's not mentioned here, he has he's an older gentleman piercing blue eyes. Those are the two main descriptors for this guy.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

And you look at like especially the cover of I think The Gunslinger, when it first came out, you look at the cover, and it's quite obvious, and I think Keene even mentions throughout the book a couple of times that Clint Eastwood had was clear inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah. Clint Eastwood from old, obviously. From old, of course. So I wrote down a few people that I think could fill the shoes. I wrote down four. One of them's kind of a wild card, but I really like it. I'm gonna first start with another rugged man that could fill these shoes, Vigo Mortenson.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

So it's funny. I was thinking about Vigo throughout this. He's not my person that I need in the role, but I think if I couldn't get my person, I 100% would want to go after Vigo as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

It seems like he fits. He obviously most of his fame came from Lord of the Rings, so it's already epic on that scale that he's, you know, he people are used to him in that kind of role. I don't feel like Aragorn and Roland Deshayne actually are all that different. So I think it fits. But who do you have as your number one?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

For me, it's gotta be Christian Bale.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Really?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

He feels too young for me.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

No. I feel like I feel like Christian Bale, when this thing actually starts shooting in a year or two, and dyeing his hair silvery gray, I do think that'll be necessary. But dyeing his his hair silvery gray, like I think about Roland, and some of the main things that come into my mind are, you know, requirement and and duty to something that hurts, but that you understand must get done, like pain, but also like having just that little bit of like hope and optimism left, but it's like there because it's just barely hanging on and it's beat been beaten down by years of of suffering and stuff. I don't, I need an actor. I need a and yes, Vigo is great and Vigo commits. And you look at Aragorn, and I don't know why, but literally a couple weeks ago, I was rereading like some interviews with him from Lord of the Rings and talking about carrying the sword around, like even when he'd go out to eat, and people be like, Sir, like what the hell's going on? Commitment to a role for sure, he's got it. But for Vigo, it always feels just to me like his heart is so big and it's not been even all the things he's gone through, he still remains that big hope. Always. It's always always feels that way. You see that life in his eye with Christian Bale. I think he could show the callousness that that character has to show at certain points throughout this story that Vigo, I don't think, could.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Okay. I also put down Daniel Craig. I think we've talked Daniel Craig, though.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

I think you think high more highly of Daniel Craig than I do.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

I think I do. Because the more I think about it, I was like, if I just was looking at a picture, I could make it fit. But if I'm looking at him on a five-season long plus two movies, that to be that cold, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I think I might be giving him more credit than he could handle the cold, but those brief moments that Roland does need to like engender warmth and create like the bond that eventually comes from their their group. I'm not buying it from Daniel. I don't think he can sell it to other actors on the screen.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Okay. Okay, I got one more. And this one is my I love him and I think he could do great. I'm not sold, but I still think he would do great. Ewan McGregor.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Oh, now that I love.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah. I think I just watched Kenobi recently. Uh Obi-Wan Kenobi, that that offshoot. And he's his stoic character in that. I feel like he's cold, calculated, stoic, just standoffish, doesn't get close. Plus, I think just from a looks standpoint, he can fit the role.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

No, I think that's great. And I never even considered him for a second. I think that's an excellent choice. I I I I go back. If I can't have Christian Bale, I want Ewan McGregor.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Over Vigo.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

I'm glad I threw that on the list.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

That was a late ad, but the more I think about it, I was like, I I love Ewan McGregor, and I feel like he could fit really nicely into that, especially like just creating this long form character like that.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

I think it's great. I think the only other person for me besides Bale that I thought about, and admittedly, I kept telling myself this is a stupid choice because he's already played basically this very character in a TV series is Henry Cavill, knowing that he played Geralt in The Witcher show, and the similarities that are there between those characters, we haven't talked about this, but the similarities between those characters, I bet that the dude who wrote that book, those books, the Witcher books, he must have been in his head thinking of Roland. But I remember when he was cast, I was like, Are you kidding me? Like, there's no way. And then watching him and how he executed that character was insane.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

I love that actually, because of The Witcher. Obviously, you look at all the rest of his stuff, he's so clean, and you look at The Witcher and he's just honestly. I mean, it's like if you read the book, like Roland's kind of a cocksucker. Like he's he's he's really he's kind of he's I don't want he's not mean. He's just intentionally uninvested in everybody else because of a history that gets you know explained later.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

But see, you can tell though at moments that it hurts him to have to be that way, and he's only that way though, because he understands the ultimate goal and what needs to happen and the stakes that are involved. And you can see little moments that how much it hurts him to have to be a cocksucker, and he is.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

He is, and he there's only one thing that matters, and it is he I wrote it down, prioritizes destiny over personal attachment.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I don't know if destiny is the fair word. Like it is his destiny, yeah. Like clearly it's the kind of thing that he sees like this is my path and I have to take it, but this is my path, and I have to go on it because the fate of the universe is at stake.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Agreed. Okay. So we're both in agreement. There we go.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I love you and McGregor.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

And by the way, for those who haven't seen Kin Obi-Wan Kenobi, the episode and the showdown with Darth Vader might be, and here's hyperbole alert, might be one of my favorite moments in the entire Star Wars universe, including the original movies, including everything.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Are we are we talking the first where he's still he's still like so out of practice, he's fumbling along, he's about to get completely roasted, or are you talking about the the one at the end?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

The battle towards the end.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Where absolutely epic ult like it ultimately like cuts off part of Vader's mask, and you see a good portion of his face. It happens at night. The lighting and the cinematography are amazing. The acting by both Christensen and McGregor is unbelievable. That sequence might be, like I said, it might be one of my favorite in the entire universe.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

It it is very, very good. I also this is totally unrelated, but I love what they're doing with this Hayden Christensen thing, and when you do see specifically in that scene, they're somehow like melding his voice with James Earl Jones. Yes. And it's just it's so perfect.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

I love it. So Ewan McGregor, roll into Shane. Love that. So the first person he meets. You know, we'll go we'll go to this the second, because Jake, Jake's he's a kid, so he's a little harder to cast. But I really want to get into Eddie Dean, who comes in in the second book, former heroine addict. He's from New York, he's quick-witted, uh, he's kind of he's a massive smart ass. And basically, his only redeeming quality is that he's loyal. Once he finally gets to that point of befriending Roland, he's fiercely loyal, but he's definitely he. I mean, we're talking about a guy that went through the withdrawals, went through massive heroin addiction that he had to sort through. Great, great character, though. I have I wrote down four for all of them. I don't know where four is this like magic number. I should have done nineteen for all of them. Okay, I literally was gonna say that. This hit my list late. But especially after our episode one conversation, where do you land on Timothy Chalamet doing it?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Okay, this is insane, Tristan. I only had one choice for Eddie.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

And it's Timothy Chalamet.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

It wasn't until I saw Marty Supreme that I even considered that, but that is I feel like that almost fits.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

You know, it's not Marty Supreme that made me think about Chalamet. It's his earlier work. So first of all, would Timothy Chalamet a year ago have consented to be in this kind of a role? Not the star, very much ensemble cast, and for like this, like a TV series, probably not. Is my dude doing damage control with the whole ballet opera stuff, even Spielberg striking him down, etc.? And does he need to, in my opinion, rebuild his image a little bit? I think so. But it wasn't. So would he do this? Probably not, but for sake of argument, let's go with it. But it was his early work for me in two films in particular. One, of course, Call Me by Your Name, and just seeing the depths that he could go to with character work, the way he could play off of someone else, the way that Eddie needs to. That, and that that, in my opinion, like might have been his best acting performance, still, my opinion. But then Beautiful Boy. Have you seen that film? I have not. So writing it down. Film with Steve Carell, where Steve Carell plays the dad of a of uh his son who has a problem with addiction. And it shows in a pretty good exploration of what someone goes through at the onset of, how they get through it, and then the depths it takes them to, and then trying to pull themselves out if they're able to from that. And watching watching the way that he played that character and showcased addiction and and really seemed to get it and put it on display in all of its nasty, awful parts, for me, that was what sold me on. Like, this dude should play Eddie.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Okay. You already think he would say no, though.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

I think a year ago it would have been easy, the easiest no in the world for him. But like now, I really think that he needs to rebuild his image a little bit. I really do.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

So if you couldn't get Chalamet, what about uh Aaron Paul?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

It's funny, I was thinking about Aaron Paul as well. Uh it's it's also the kind of thing where, you know, in the same way that I said Henry Cavill for for Roland, and having played already that character, I mean, is Eddie and Jesse I mean, they're such similar characters.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

They they really are, and so that's why we know it would work, right? Oh yeah, he he would do well as as Eddie Dean, just with this Jesse Pinkman role. And he also showed that he can uh act through addiction and detox and all those things. Because he did sober up at some point in breaking bad, right? And it was it was a pretty gnarly sober sobering.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

I mean, obviously he went through different waves of places, yeah. And he was ultimately taken just all the way back down with I don't remember her character's name, but Kristen Ritter's death. Rights. And then taken all the way back down. That's right. But he had waves.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

He did. So I would just stick with those two. Shalomet though.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

I have one other suggestion, I have one other idea.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Joseph Gordon Levitt.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So Harrison, my son, and I were watching The Dark Knight Rises, I don't know, couple weeks ago. And I was thinking to myself while watching it, like, dude, Gordon Levitt does not get nearly enough good roles. Like he can seriously act, and I think that might be by choice.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

I think he I feel like it has to be by choice because every time he's in a role, he shines. Like it's not like he's just some tucked away guy. He's a great actor.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

He really is.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Because his role in Inception, too, was exceptional.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

You don't think he's too old though to play Eddie Dean? I mean, I guess at this point, Aaron Paul would be too. I think the only one that I have on the list that's age appropriate would be Chalamet.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Agreed. But I don't think that either I don't think either Paul or Levitt or Gordon Levitt would be too old, no.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

So, and that would but I think that you're right. Like, I think this is where it kind of gets interesting because there's a lot of people that can do really, really well for 90 minutes. It's harder to find someone that can do really, really well for five seasons and two movies. Yes. And so, but I do think Joseph Gordon Leavitt's got the chops, and I think he could I think he could play that role well.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So Jesus, this is we're not gonna be able to afford this cast.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

You know, when they hear the source material and it they'll they'll fall in line.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

We'll we'll just do what we they did with uh Star Wars. We'll we'll pay him in points.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Okay, I'm gonna make a concession here. We haven't talked about this. I hope you're down. I'm gonna make a concession. Where on the last episode I talked about the fact that we're the EPs. Thank you anyway, Mr. Spielberg. We'll allow Steven to get involved here. And with his cachet, it'll open up the checkbooks a little bit more, and we can make this thing happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Okay. But you remember, and I'm complete oh my god, I'm so embarrassed. And Alec Guinness. Alec Guinness, the original Obi-Wan Kenobi, thought the movie was gonna flop. Of course. And so he asked for two and a half percent instead of a paycheck. And that guy laughed all the way to the bank until the day he died.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

So maybe, maybe that's what it is. We'll just give everybody a few percent. Points. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, here's a hundred grand and two points. All right, there's two members in the cat left. There's Susanna, later, well no, I won't even say that later because don't wanna no spoilers. Yep. Civil rights activist, African American from you're reading it more recently, 50s, 60s.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

She was from the oh it was either the 50s or 60s. Yeah. It's been a long time for me, even since book book two.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Well, dude, that was 2024. I got you those books. So, geez Louise. Lady of the Shadows, she's there's a whole thing going on. I don't want to spoil it for anybody listening, but this person needs to just be able to play a lot of characters in one.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yep. And simultaneously incredibly ruthlessly vicious, conniving, mean, but also be able to show true, genuine heart and connection and care. And to do them flipping on a dime.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Oh yeah. It this one this one's uh this one's a lift. I only had really one person on the list though. Me too. Sandy Newton.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

I hadn't even considered her.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

That's just who I like when I picture Susanna, like that's who's in my head.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

See, I immediately pictured someone too, which is mine, but I think she could do it. She is a really good actress.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

She's great. And she already showed the savagery in Westworld.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

That is a good idea. I mean, you're right, she did. No, I think that I think that would work, and I hadn't even thought about her or considered her. Okay. For mine, it came immediately to me, and I didn't even think about it, but immediately I was picturing from Sinners Wound My Masako. Oh, yes. Like, dude, when I when watching that scene in Centers originally when Angela and I went to see it, with her and Michael B. Jordan, their I think it was their first scene together, right? Like, dude, I I got a little teary-eyed. Like her her depth in that scene was insane.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

She was she's the one that was on the stage singing, right? Just to make sure they were all on the same page. Yeah. I thought so. I just just confirming. She was excellent. I didn't quite see and I there was no opportunity for it, but that that same like oh yeah. That same like savagery you get from that Thandy Newton role in Westworld, like just she just she was so tough as nails and ended up being a killer. Anybody that hasn't seen it, she was one of the prostitutes in she she's the one that became sentient along with Evan Rachel Wood, eventually broke out. Watch Westworld if you haven't seen it. It's excellent. She was great. But I like her a lot as well. Yeah. Got people poking in. Since it was Rob, I'll just tell them. We're putting in a lot of information in here because we know you have no idea what we're talking about. Yes. Yeah. This is all for you, buddy. So to a lesser extent, I threw Zoe Kravitz in just because, you know, it's an honorable nod. I love her.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Oh no, she'd work. Of course she'd play that too.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

I think she would do great. She'd kill it. It's just I I do think she'd be third in line between our two choices. I those two were excellent. So Jake Chambers, 1977, young kid. He runs he meets in meets Roland in the first book, the original gunslinger. He's he's young. He's only what is he, 14, 15 years old?

SPEAKER_00 32:32

If like I I think he's close to like 12.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

God. So it's like I'm looking at who I have as like options, and it's I don't want to say this is a throwaway role because it's like it's it's important. It's a big role, but it's there's the two basically okay. Let me rephrase this. Every person that I put down to potentially play Jake has already been in a Stephen King role. It's either the two kids that played the Denbro brothers in the the more modern It's or those two kids from Welcome to Derry. The the one that ended up in the back of the car that ended up dying. Yeah. And then the one that laid on the refrigerator during the fire. Which is Arian Cardia. He's 13. He would fit. I think he did great in that role.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

I'll tell you the only one that I could come up with. Because I was trying to think of younger, younger male actors, and I just don't. It's like you don't have, in my opinion, the ones who immediately shine, like when, you know, back in the late 90s with Haley Jill Osmond, who just blew everyone off the screen when he came out. You think of Jacob Trimblay, who was also in Dr. Sleep and did an amazing job in a very brief role. But I'm trying to think a performance from a younger male actor who really stood out to me. And the one I came to was uh JoJo Rabbit and Roman Griffin Davis.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Done. Write the put the contract up. That that is the guy. I don't know how I completely miss Jojo Rabbit. That is one of the greatest movies. Oh God. It's one of those, like I feel so dumb for missing that. That that is such a great call.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

You see that scene that has, and spoiler alert yet again, but who cares if you're here.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

It's like five years old. Go watch it.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Spoilers all over the place. Yeah, got the scene where you know his mom played by Scarlett Johansson, and you just see her feet dangling from her hanging behind him, and he's not aware of it. And I don't know, like you that kid could play humor, but he could play depth, he could play pain, and and do them all effortlessly, and it all felt genuine and real. That kid seemed like a pretty good actor.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

He is such a good call. Just God. I'm annoyed I didn't come up with it. Because damn, that is perfect. Yeah, that scene though, people, anybody, Rob, if you haven't seen JoJo Rabbit, get your shit together. Because that movie will make you feel every single emotion under the spectrum in like 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Somehow you go from laughing to crying to laughing to loving to just everything. Oh my god, so good. And that is forget it. I forget everything I said. That's that's the guy.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

That is him. I think you could nail it. So he would. Well, who do we have left? Do we just are we just doing the the man in black left? Or are we doing other characters?

SPEAKER_02 36:14

I got a couple antagonists that I want to go through. And I also towards the later end, okay. Father Callahan from Salem's Lot ends up in this move, in this series. So anybody that's read Salem's Lot, he is a crossover. This whole thing is basically the Stephen King equivalent of the Marvel multiverse. Not did this could be a whole different conversation. Like literally, I could spend a half hour on that alone. But Father Callahan becomes a big deal towards the back half of back half of the series. I think he was really badly cast in the new Salem slot, and I want to fix that. And I'm leaning towards I'm leaning between like a Mark Ruffalo or a Kenneth Brana.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

I'll take Ruffalo all day for that role. I think he'd be great for that.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

I feel like Ruffalo would be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Kenneth Brano would immediately overact it and try and choose screen time. But Ruffalo would fold right in, and he would do what Father, what what the pair Callahan is supposed to do in this, which is to elevate others and to lift up. And Ruffalo's perfect for that.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

He's yeah, he's got this way of like cutting you, but it's very soft.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Yeah, Ruffalo's great for that role.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

So I didn't want to skip past that one because I had a this is weirdly, when I'm going through this, like and I'm like writing down people that I think would be good. Somehow Father Callahan ended up with the fattest list of people. And you know, obviously I'm not gonna go through them all, but like I just for some reason like I really liked that character, and I liked his origin story, I guess. His because he they get really deep into his origin story in the Dark Tower, even more so than they get into in Salem's Lot. Yes. And he's such a cool character that was just so poorly cast that I just he needed a redemption arc a little bit in my eyes. So but for antagonists, I'll I'll rattle him off real quick, and then we can jump into him. So you obviously have Randall Flag, the man in black, the walk-in dude, who anybody that again that follows King knows that that is a the he's uh the shining, sorry, not the shining, oh my god, the stand. Stand. He's in this whole series, he's in uh he's in one I'm reading right now that has nothing to do with this. So I have Randall Flag, and I want to get into John Farson, who is the revolutionary from Wizard and Glass. And then just for fun, Blaine the Mono.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

I'll tackle the man in black and Blaine the Mono. I'll abstain on John Farson since I think that wizard and glass sucks, as you know, but I'll happily listen to your suggestions. Who should we do first?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Well, let's end with let's end with Blaine the Mono because I think that that's gonna be fun. So Randall Flag, obviously shapeshifting sorcerer, because he's in multiple storylines, and he was most recently played by Alexander Skarsgaard in a not that great rendition of the stand. I just wish it would have you know gone in order.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

And he was played in the ill-fated and very problematic adaptation, but with great casting in some respects. Dark Tower movie they came out with a few years ago by Matthew McConaughey. Yes. Which I think was brilliant casting. And I wish that McConaughey could have been in Flanagan's version. But since that does not make sense, I'll keep him out of my thoughts for this.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Wait, why wouldn't it make sense? I actually have McConaughey on my list. I mean, he's so perfect for it, but they screwed it up. They screwed it up in that one. Yeah, that that can you cast him as the same role?

SPEAKER_00 40:13

I mean, if you're not gonna fuck it up a second time, I don't see why not. Because I I mean he's outstanding. I've got other choices, but if it can be McConaughey, I want it to be McConaughey.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I do think he was really good for the role. And my mom's gonna hate me saying that because she just cannot stand Matthew McConaughey. I don't know why. Was she not okay? She was not part of the McConnaissance.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Was she not present on the journey? But has she had all the touch points? No. Of the McConnell's. No. So has she seen Mud?

SPEAKER_02 40:44

I don't, I don't so this is the problem, is like she is stuck in this world of like not liking McConaughey to the point where she now won't watch McConaughey movies. And I'm just like, that's the problem. That's why you don't like him.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

See, I was stuck in that world too. Like Angela and I went to see that oh god, whatever trash it was with one of the awful romantic comedies that came out when we were in college. And as I walked out, I was like, I used to think Matthew McConaughey was the coolest person alive. Yeah. And I don't know if I can watch another film with him. This is god-awful trash, and I won't ever get that 90 minutes back in my life. And then we watched Mud. Like, I kept hearing about this film Mud. Have you seen this? I have seen Mud, yeah. Okay, I thought you had. I kept hearing about this film Mud, and we watched on streaming, like, I don't know, some years ago. Like, oh my God, McConaughey can act. And he, I mean, this is excellent. And then you see Interstellar and Dallas Byrus Club over the next year to 16, 18 months, and he's back.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Oh god. Yeah. Interstellar should have been enough to bring him back for her, but I'm still not sure she's even seen it because of Tell her to watch Mud.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

That's that's I think that's where the journey needs to begin because that's where it actually began in the McConnassines.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

She she's one of our few listeners.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Hey, watch Mud. Because that's what Christopher Nolan watched to inspire him to want to cast McConaughey in Interstellar.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Okay. That makes sense. I see, and I love him. I loved him in the role. I think the movie was bad, but he did well. The other one I have in here though, which is Paul Bettany.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

I don't know if he's got the malice.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

I I saw him in solo and I thought he had the malice.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

I don't know if I'm buying that one. I hate to say.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

No, no, it's okay. Because I I had him a couple times on this list. I just like Paul Bettany and I feel like he'd fit into this. But I the Randall Flag role is so important. Crucial. And I don't even I don't think Skarsgard did a great job.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

He didn't. Skarsgard's a Skarsgrd can be a great act, can be a good actor, but he always feels like a caricature to me. Yeah. Regardless of the role he's doing. It always feels outsized. Always. I think that his brother does a better job. His brother actually nailed it as pennywise, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

His brother was great. I think his dad is excellent.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Excellent. His dad's always an asshole, though. I don't think his dad has the capability of making you feel anything other than what a prick whenever you watch him on screen. Stellan, of course, is what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Stellan's guys go, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

If it can be McConaughey, I want it to be. But let me tell you about, in my opinion, the greatest casting that could have been. At this point, it can't. But if we could if we could turn back time, right? Who I'd want to be.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

If we could find a way.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

I know. Thank you. I was I was teaming up for you. And then who I would have it be if it can't be McConaughey. And since we can't screw around with the space time continuum, the person who would be so Perfect for that role would be Jack Nicholson.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

You think about you're talking you're talking shining era, like 70s Jack Nicholson, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Yeah, and not earlier than earlier than the shining. I'm talking about like right before the shining. I'm talking like even one flew over the cuckoo's nest era Jack Nicholson. But you think about the dude's acting chops, about the ability to like show comedy, but have just the deepest, darkest evil within them. I don't know if anyone can play that better than Nicholson.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

God, you're right. Yeah. And he already, I mean, like we talked about earlier, his depiction of Jack Torrance was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

But if I can't have Nicholson, because I haven't perfected time travel yet, yet is key, the key word there, of course. For me, and I can't have McConaughey because the Dark Tower producer screwed it up on that god-awful movie, then for me, I need Billy Baum Thornton. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

I had this brief moment where I was like, is this where Edward Norton makes his return?

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Oh shit, he could do it too.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

He fucking could.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

That's I haven't thought about I hadn't even thought about him.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Nobody does because the guy's basically non-existent now.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

But oh hell, he could do that, of course. He could do it too. Yeah. I'll take him on that too. Edward will kill it.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

And he needs something to just like get back into anything.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Two things alone. Tell me that he could, he could, because you know he could nail the nice, like the fun, lighthearted comedic part of it.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

But two scenes alone, him in in primal fear with the turn and the the Marty and the snow clapping. Oh yeah. Perfect for Randall Flag, the for the man in black. And then just the smile in American History X.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

That you know the smile I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah. Anybody that hasn't seen it, it's within the first five minutes of the movie. It's a tough five minutes to watch, so not necessarily recommending it. It might fuck you up honestly to watch it.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

That's a great call. He would do really good in that too. And he looks innocuous. Like you don't expect, you don't see him coming.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

No, and that's that's the whole thing. Like Randall Flagg is he's just the the everyday guy.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Like he's I actually like that better than Billy Bob. And I like the my bill the thought of Billy Bob a lot, but I like that even better.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Billybob Thornton works in the same way McConaughey works, but Edward Norton works. I think Edward Norton works better when you consider on this long form that it's gonna be. Alright. Two quick ones. John Farson, you didn't finish the book, you don't care. But Ethan Hawk would fit that role great. And plus he's just, I mean, he's awesome. Or if you wanted to completely just, you know, some women empowerment, a little bit of just flip it on its head. I put down Carla Gugino as well.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Oh yeah. Well, she's gotta be in the film. She's part of the Flanagan verse now.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

That that's the that's kind of where it came from. But here's the fun one. I want to end on this. Blaine the mono. He is a sentient monorail that is driven insane by isolation and decay. He's sadistic, brilliant, and suicidal. And he forces the quatet into a deadly riddle contest where if they do not pass, they die. He's going what, like 900 miles an hour straight at a wall. Yeah. And so you're just basically you're having you're doing a riddle game against a computer that's about to kill you. Great character.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

I had a couple of thoughts. Do you want to go first or me? Nah, you go ahead. I've been going first. Well, initially I thought about the most annoying like sounding voice or person who would be for that role. And I immediately thought of Jim Parsons, who I really enjoyed the Big Bang Theory, but God dang it, every time he was on screen, it was very annoying to me. But I'm like, no, it's just it's too annoying, and in a way that would just because Blaine was interesting, and the conversations they had were interesting.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

So then for me, immediately it was like, okay, there's only one person. And for me, it's gotta be Rain Wilson.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Oh, fuck, that is good. That is good. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

I had fuck that. The more I think about it, that is Rain Wilson would be excellent in that's in that role. I had, and this is this is a little bit unfair because where I'm getting this, my idea from came from the fact that he's already played a robot, and I thought he did a great job. James Spader.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Oh, of course, he'd be excellent. Because also, whoever it is has got to be really intelligent, like legit, yeah, intelligent. And you can tell Rain Wilson is legit intelligent, and of course, Spader is legit intelligent. That's a good call.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

And I I love like when they used him for Ultron, not a big Marvel guy, but I loved that particular character because he didn't try to sound menacing, he didn't try to sound anything but James Spader. He just was talking.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

And I kind of love the idea of like he's this is just normal. Like this is there's I'm not trying to be menacing. We're just having a riddle contest, and if you don't do it, you're gonna die. Like this is facts.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

I'll take that. I I like Spader as well. I think both of those would work equally well if one of them wasn't available.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

And then oh, I had one more. This is very, very different. It's quite a divergence, but I it's actually a woman, and I think her voice for this would be great. Hannah Waddingham.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Ooh, that's a good call, too. I want her in more of a role than that, though.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

You're right, because this is literally like two episodes max, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Like they're on the mono for because she has a great voice, you're right. But I think she can do even more. Hell, I think she could play what's the the the gal's name in Wizard of Glass? Susan Delgato.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Susan Delgado's young though, but maybe Susan's mom. Because Susan's mom's an absolute nutcase in that book.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

I want more of a role. I like her a lot. Yes. She's gotta be in she's gotta be in the show. I think she's outstanding, but we need more.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

I think that she's best as an antagonist. I mean, what if you literally just did a the Crimson Queen instead of the Crimson King? Would that just upset everybody?

SPEAKER_00 50:56

I'm in. Nope. I was just thinking, like, what if we turn something on its head?

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

So, yeah, then that leaves Spader.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Okay. Or well, Spader or Rain Wilson, I think either one's fine. As a as a final bonus, one of my favorite characters, which I don't think I've told you this in the entire series, is Oi, the Bumbler, which is the little kind of dog, kind of other things. Yeah, like the raccoon tail and companion that they have. And for me, I immediately did think of Rocket and Guardians of the Galaxy, and I'm like, well, we'll just have Bradley Cooper come in and do that too. But what I think I wanted to be, he did such a great job with the sound effects and the weird vocal stuff in in Star Wars, uh, The Force Awakens. I wanted to be Bill Hader. He he did do great in those those roles. I mean, so great in BB8, great voice work. I want him to be my oi.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

Plus, it's just nice to have Bill Hader on a cast list. It is. I think the Okay, perfect. There we go. Mike Flanagan, I'm sending this to you directly. If you need me to get in touch with our buddy either uh Spielberg or JJ Abrams, I will let you know. But we just casted it for you. Job's done. Don't worry about the payroll. They'll take points.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Steve's gonna help facilitate this.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Yeah, it's it's not a big deal. I'll text him right now. It's clearly friend of the show.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

God, there's this, there's so many characters that like are in this show. We went through but a fraction. Like, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

We need to have a great casting director. You know, someone who is the modern day casting director who did like the outsiders, for instance. Like someone who can bring together a lot of unknown talent and they'll be great, and their next projects are amazing. But I think we covered a lot of the main bases.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

I think we did. But with it being a flanagan, we somehow Carlo Gugino needs to be in it, and we need to find a spot for Henry Thomas.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

I was about to say, we've got Steve involved. We can now have Henry Thomas as well, and they can reunite.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Henry Thomas is Ted Brodigan.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Okay, that's money. See, there we for those of you who don't know, Henry Thomas, obviously, who's in all of the Mike Flanagan shows, who will be Ted Brodigan in this. Yes. I mentioned Spielberg because I don't think it's mentioned often enough. Henry Thomas, of course, played Elliot and E.T. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

And I know that this isn't real life, but he kind of disappeared for forever and then came back as Mike Flanagan's just Muse. Muse, yeah. Yeah. So there we go. We casted it. Did we come up with a sign-off? Is Reed gonna be mad?

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Okay. So I talked to you about this. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I'm in on doing different sign-offs and having it be something that that maintains true to our our purpose, 80s, 90s, maybe occasionally whatever, pop cultural, but have it be different. Do we want to do the same sign-off, or does one of us want to choose one and cycle it back and forth?

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Oh, geez, Louise. I'm not great. That's why I've never done a sign-off. I'm not good at this kind of stuff. I usually just say bye and awkwardly hit the stop button. I think we need to we need to workshop this.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

I think we should workshop it, but in in the meantime, I think that I'll I'll I'll nail it for this time. And stay classy San Diego. I'm Ron Burgundy.