EPISODE 2: Buffy, Reboots, and the 90s

Episode 2 dives headfirst into nostalgia, vampires, and the chaos of 90s pop culture. Tristan and Chris (yes—they finally introduce themselves) skip the formalities and jump straight into a lively, opinionated conversation about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. From half‑remembered rewatches and watching Buffy with their parents, to debating whether the show still holds up—and whether Xander would survive the internet today—the hosts explore why Buffy still matters. They unpack the recently scrapped reboot, pitch their own bold (and occasionally unhinged) reimagining of the series, and dream-cast a new generation of Slayers. Along the way, they riff on music at The Bronze, surprising casting what‑ifs, film technique, and the eternal question: should the 90s make a comeback? Funny, thoughtful, and packed with tangents, this episode is a love letter to Buffy—and to the conversations fandom was built on.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So this is episode two of Cross Eyed Bear. And Steph listened to all of like six minutes of it. And I got incr I got ridiculed for not introducing us. It was apparently a big faux pas because of the fact that how are we ever gonna get listeners if people don't know who we are? Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Apparently our names are important. So I have to rectify that. I'm Tristan. As if the five people that hear this don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

And I'm Chris. That being said, I'm gonna humbly disagree uh with Steph, and I'll look forward to having a contentious debate the next time we meet. I'm not doing this so that we get listeners. I think this is more like let's put it out in the world, and if people want to listen, great. If not, they can get whatever they want out of it. And I kind of like to just jump in. Like you and I both read a lot, Tristan, since we're being weird about formalities.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

No, we've introduced. We're we're okay. Now people know that that is my voice, and the robot to my left is Chris.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Demonic robot. Thank you. Yes. Of course. But I, you know, we both read books, and I kind of like it when a book is in the middle of something, you know, and it just jumps in. So a book series, obviously, that we've been reading recently and that was going to be a topic for today, but that wasn't in a cruel twist of fate for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

We were talking about the Dark Tower, and you know, with the Dark Tower, it very much starts there. It starts, you know, the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed. It just jumps right in and then builds up the lore and the the and the world as it goes along. I like that. And so I kind of like to do it the same. And it'd be great, that'd be such a great segue for us to talk about the Dark Tower if we were talking about the Dark Tower today, but instead we're talking about the other topic which you are, to your words, woefully underprepared for. And that is Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Woefully underprepared. I knew it was going to come up at some point, so I committed to doing a rewatch. And despite my best efforts, I've only made it through the first two seasons. And I don't even know, like I'd have to check. I don't even think I'm all the way through the second season. But I am doing the rewatch. I'm doing the due diligence, but I I feel like I I don't know. I I don't remember how it ends. It was so many years ago. I watched it with my mom, and I didn't ever do the requisite rewatch until now, knowing that I was gonna be quizzed on it. So I'm I'm getting out of my comfort zone. We're getting into this well fully unprepared.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

So I don't know. I don't think that you need to remember all the plot points. So for what it's worth, I did, I've only done two rewatches of the series. My last re-watch was probably, gosh, 10 years ago or something. But I've watched a couple, I've watched a handful of episodes since then. I think that more than anything, just remembering the key points, remembering the characters and and some of the stuff. And I'll re-educate you as it were on the ending if you want. But I don't think that's the important piece. It's good to remember because one of the things I was thinking we'd talk about, how would the storyline continue? Right? Right. And the reason we're talking about it is because it is a little topical. You know, when those of us who very much enjoyed the series heard a year ago that Hulu was basically rebooting it, sequeling it, kind of both, whatever, and that it was gonna have Sarah Michelle Geller in it, and it was gonna be done by Chloe Zhao, who's great, great filmmaker, and I think would have done a great job. You know, such excitement. They filmed the pilot, etc. And then just last week, come to find out, Hulu pretty unceremoniously killed it and scrapped it after all. Something which Sarah Michelle Gellers made public comments about, questioning certain executives who work for Hulu and their lack of understanding in the first place. So I think, you know, I wanted to examine what it could have looked like or what we would have hoped it would have look like.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

It's also especially topical just because of the fact that Nicholas Brendan, may you rest in peace. Exactly. That's right. So couple reasons. The the timing works, and I appreciate it, and I'm I'm buckling in. So just to catch you up on where I'm at, if you remember, I j I just finished the episode where Nicholas Brendan uh Xander did the love spell to win back Cordelia, and all it did was make every single other woman in Sunnydale fall for him.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

That was kind of a horrible episode. It was goofy.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Well, okay. I want to actually touch on that for a second. So I'm watching it right now, and I watched it when it came out in '97, yeah, 97. And obviously, like I loved it then, and I think nostalgia makes me love it now, but I'm like Steph will pop in, my wife, she'll pop in, and I'm just like, I don't think you can get into this if you didn't watch it in the 90s. Like, it is so camp, and it's it's goofy. And it's it's goofy, and I love it because I loved it then. But do you think this is actually here's the question. Do you think people that have never seen it can come into the 97 to 2003 Buffy and fall in love in the same way you would have?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

The great thing is, we can actually test this out. As you know, I've got a 15-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son. I'm gonna test it out with both of them. I'm gonna watch, I'm gonna have them watch a couple of episodes with of Buffy with me. Because first episode's is a banger, but it takes uh an episode or two to kind of get into it. Yeah, to be fair. I'm gonna have them watch it and see. Like, I I do think that there are some shows like that, that if you were not there at the time, that they don't carry the same weight. Like when we were kids, the shows that we're on, I think those have a much greater timeless quality. So like you look at the things that were on TGIF, like the you know, the full houses, the family matters, the step-by-steps. Yeah. And even the more, you know, slightly not as popular stuff. Well, here's where all of our three and a half listeners will get probably disagree. The more fringe stuff like Boy Meets World or Blossom or whatever, but you check back in on those, and I think those have a more timeless quality to them. All of them worked still pretty well. I've shown my kism they love them. I think your point's right though, like on the more mid to late 90s stuff, just with what the pop cultural stuff was and how much it leaned into the the pop culture of the times. I think you might be right. Because like I showed I showed a couple episodes of Friends to my daughter, and she was like, it's you know, it's good, but it's not great. Like, are you kidding? I I might have to agree with Maya. I and I and Angela and I still think it's great. But then also, like, I had tested it myself. We've talked about this also topical, unfortunately, because of a death with Dawson's Creek, where I watched Dawson's Creek religiously and loved that when I was in high school. And I checked Bickin and on like a few years ago, and I was like, whoa. And it didn't even, it still didn't carry for me.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

I that was one I never got into. Literally, I've not seen a single episode of Dawson's Creek. And it wasn't that it was I wasn't exposed to it. All my friends watched it and stuff. I just never did. I was always into the stuff more like what we're talking about with with Buffy. But speaking on that and just like whether or not it would work now, like I'm watching it and I have a high tolerance for I guess like not faux pas necessarily, but like, are we all just gonna sit and pretend the Xander wouldn't have been canceled in like 15 minutes?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

You know, that's the kind of thing that's that's tough then because I clearly Xander. Here's where I didn't know if we were gonna talk about it. And it brings up a topic I've talked about a lot lately, which is can you can you separate the artist and the art? Right? Clearly, Xander an extension in a lot of ways of Joss Whedon. And at least in how he saw himself and wanted to see himself. Right. Right? Which still did carry in some of the not as good character traits, but not all of them as well. Still made him look like a noble character, which clearly he was not. I don't think you I don't think it crosses that barrier to where that show would be problematic today. I really don't. I don't think that that character was problematic to that extent, and I don't think that it'd be it'd be an issue.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

He wasn't problematic necessarily. He was just he was just a I don't I can't even say womanizer because he was not particularly successful. But he was he was girl crazed, but in a way that like people I think would deem inappropriate nowadays.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I don't know, man. I don't I don't I don't agree. Like I don't think the way that he ever acted was there was obviously moments.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

There was nothing even in those moments that I think took it to a place where it was really problematic. I think that I think it would still work, and I don't think that people would have an issue with the character even if that was what was out today. I really don't.

unknown 10:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

But that's one thing you gotta ask, Maya and Harrison.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

They they're they're gonna be very versed in current counterculture or not cancel culture, sorry, not counterculture.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

It's true. Maya, yes, Harrison maybe not as much. Maya, yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

But that's 12, 12's a good age to get into it. That's about let's see if I can do math right now. I was not gonna age myself, but I was about that age when we got into it.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

So what I wanted to look at was obviously the show has now been canceled, which sucks. They were gonna reboot it. They were gonna have a new character taking on the mantle of Slayer, but they were gonna have Sarah Michelle Geller to be there as, you know, not the spotlight anymore, but to carry the torch to pass it along, etc. What I was curious about is A, how would that story progress? And B, they'd already cast Buffy, the the new Buffy character.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah, but we can let's just ignore that. We can do better. Because yeah, I I don't know if I agree with it, but it was who who was it? Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

I don't even remember the actress's name.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Ryan Kira Armstrong. But what she's I don't know, young Burnett.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Doesn't seem to have done Oh, she was on Skeleton Crew in American Horror Story. Okay, she's got some she's got some chops.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

So let's do this if you're game. Yeah. First of all, let me give you a very, very brief encapsulation of the end. You know, at the end, there was this, of course, big, bad evil, world on the brink of apocalypse, etc. Slayer power given to multiple girls, not just Buffy. They saved the entire world from, you know, cataclysmic apocalyptic collapse. And that's that. So what I want to think about is where do they go from here? You know, what hadn't they done that maybe they can do? And then, yeah, who would be uh who would be the new Buffy? And let's let's let's play the game where anything's possible. And it doesn't have to be an actress that uh is in her uh, you know, the early 20s or even mid-20s now. Let's play the game where it can be anyone since Buffy came out.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Anyone since? Because I got some girls that actually would fit that age group that I think are killing it right now. Okay, well, great. That makes it easier. For one, Freya Allen. She was the I don't know what you call her character, but she was in The Witcher. The blonde girl and the Witcher. Excellent in that show. I think just based on just what it takes to be in that role, she would fit well. And it I don't know, but it is, then you're kind of running into like we're replacing a blonde girl with a blonde girl. I don't know if people care, but see, people seem to care. So if you're gonna be woke about it, the other one that jumps to mind is I I don't know her name as an actress, but the girl that played Erica Sinclair from Stranger Things. Cause now that she's older, I've seen her in some things outside of Stranger Things, and she's kind of got this she was already kind of like a like a badass towards the end of Stranger Things. But then she's got this like Kiki Palmer thing where she's she's quick and she's got good like comedic chops, which if we hearken back to the old Buffy days, is kind of necessary to have just a little bit of like comedic delivery, because it's not all it's a it's camp, it's kind of got some goofiness to it, and I feel like that's important to bring into the role.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

I okay, so first of all, it's tough because are we j uh are we just gonna look at like you know stranger things and that kind of thing and and that to to to cast from that camp? But it's also easy to do because obviously the exposure is that much greater. She definitely has the comedic chops and she has strength, but does she have too much? Could she be vulnerable? Because that's the thing that was so great about Sarah Michelle Geller, is like she could have strength, she had the comedic chops, but like she still had the vulnerability that really gave you that really gave you empathy for the character, and I think made her resonate even that much more.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

So you're worried that with the uh it's uh Praya Ferguson, so the Erica Sinclair character. I you're right. Like what I've seen her in has not been anything where she's had to be vulnerable. She's always kind of just been very forward and a little aggressive and oh, what is the word? But just very in your face a little bit. I mean, in in a good way, but she was like very assertive. That's that's the word I'm looking for. And I never saw her be vulnerable. So I guess if that is uh something that's required, I don't know. I have no basis. I don't know if she would fit that.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

You know though, now I am thinking of the same show, and I'm gonna fall into the pit of just going from that cast as well. But the person, and I was when when we were watching Stranger Things, the actor I probably thought most to myself, dang, they're under underutilizing this person, or they're not, it doesn't feel like they're playing into their strengths. Was Maya Hawk. And for me, like whenever I watched, I'm like, it seems like she's got some good acting ability there, but it feels like they're trying to make her do something in this character, something that's not really her. So many of those roles will were so well cast. Yeah. Except that one, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I I agree. I like Maya Hawk a lot. I didn't like Robin. Yeah. And it's nothing like she did great in the role that she was given, but I don't think it was. You're right. I think she was I think she wasn't given the right role, is what it really comes down to. But she knowing her as Robin, she could fit that Willow role a little bit. Like that just it'd be a little she'd be a little quicker and less shy and nerdy, but I think she would fit that. I think it would be and but then again, like are we gonna just recast? Like, are we even gonna just have the Duffer brothers do the show? Like, what what are we doing here? No.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

So I I We're the executive producers.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Oh yes, yes, we're the EPs. So I I do like Maya Hawk and I do think that she could do it. Because I saw her in in Fear Street, and it was a pretty small role.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

That's right. But she can she can handle some horror and some just some uh slasher stuff, which is needed in that show as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Okay, so I'd posit her as Buffy, and I would throw out McKenna Grace as the Willow character.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Oh, McKenna Grace. I know the name. Why do I know the name?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

So she's been in a lot of stuff, but for me, I've seen her in Ghostbusters, the new Ghostbusters movies, where she played Egon's daughter. And I just thought to myself, like, I don't know who this is, but she is carrying the scene every time she's on screen.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

No, that is such a spot-on move. I am embarrassed, I didn't realize that because I she was great, and they she filled that role so perfectly to be related to Egon Spengler. Like, that is the curly hair, the big glasses, and she just like walked right into that role and it it fit perfect. Yeah. And but she she doesn't look like that normally.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

No, but that's the thing. Like, Willow was such a transmutable character. She had so many different, she could be so many different things over the course of that show. Had such a diff such an amazing character progression, and clearly McKenna Grace has shown that she's capable of doing a lot of different things as well.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

I actually I agree. I do agree. As in watching this, I remember. So I know everybody's like Buffy's, you know, Sarah Michelle Gellers, beautiful woman. I get it. And people are into it. Great. I mean, I'm I kind of like that off center a little bit, and I remember being really into Alice and Anigan, more specifically Willow in the show. But I'm watching these first two seasons, and I'm just like, I remember her being better than this, and I I know I'm just not deep enough in yet. Like, you're right, there's a character progression that she hasn't hit yet, and she's literally just she's not a fly on the wall, she's not a wallflower like that, but she's so like beaten down, it feels like, and she's treated like shit, and she just takes it. And I know she I think it's through the relationship with Oz, right? That she starts to like kind of like and that brings her out of her shell, and that turns her into a witch, and then all kinds of character things. All kinds of character things, and she was a great, great character, but definitely I'm just like, yeah, you you guys can have Sarah Michelle Gellar. You're all sleeping on Alice and Hannigan over here.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I think I mean, like we talked about, everyone had their characters that they identified with the most and were drawn to the most. For me, it started with Buffy from a male character standpoint. I never got into, I never identified with Xander. I I don't know. Just a different kind of character for me. Whereas Oz very much and Angel very much.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Oh, yes. I've I recall you comparing yourself to the hunk.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Let's slow down on not from a physical comparative standpoint, just from a brooding and you know, all that stuff standpoint. He was quite quite brooding. Quite brooding. But obviously, as I told you as time went along, I really Cordelia's character arc was insane, especially as it carried over into English.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Angel Yeah. It was I was reading up on Charisma Carpenter a little bit. Um, I like to kind of brush up before I hop into this. And I didn't realize that she you know the the faculty? Yeah, of course. So were you aware that that role was written for Charisma Carpenter? And she bailed out of it because she thought it was too they were basically trying to pigeonhole her as that Cordelia character.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Wait a minute. Was it the the what? Didn't Jordana Brewster play the role?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

I think so. I'm gonna check that. But she was it was written for her, and she told them no. Wow. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And I love trivia like that.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

And I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing, because as you look as I kind of you know look at her career, I guess, besides that and charmed an angel, which I mean she kind of pigeonholed herself with that, like she had a chance to jump into movies and and didn't because she was trying to not be this stereotype, this pigeonholed mean girl.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

It's too bad because she, like I said, especially when she got into Angel, she did really good work. That's interesting, and that's kind of unfortunate that she didn't take that role because you think about the faculty now, and I think it's kind of you know, low-key revered as something that rose above a lot of the other genre fair that was occurring at that time, and was actually a pretty good flick. Like, I think that Robert Rodriguez, sometimes he's too Robert Rodriguez for his own good.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

But when it's tempered and he brings just some, and sometimes he's he's too Robert Rodriguez for his own good, and it creates a machete, and it's so over the top, it's delightful, and it's wonderful. Yeah. But sometimes it's it's it's too much for its own good. Faculty is great. Like I actually rewatched that, what, a couple years ago. It'd been a minute. You know, Jon Stewart in in a in a role is is fantastic in that. Of course, Robert Patrick from from T2, excellent in that film. That's a really good movie. And it's unfortunate. I think Jordana Brewster's a pretty good actress. She was a pretty good actress, but and then charisma carpenter in that role would have been killer.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

She would have been great. I mean, I haven't it's been a couple years since I've seen the faculty, but I remember the character, Delilah, and yeah, it clearly, it clearly was something that she would have walked into quite nicely. And I understand that. Like, I'm gonna steer away from something that's gonna just turn me into this forever like high school meme girl, and I get it. But you you're talking about a cast that had the the people you just mentioned, but then Josh Hartnett, Sama Hayek, Elijah Craig. Elijah Craig, Jesus Louise, Elijah Wood. Apparently I need a whiskey. Well, that's right, Elijah Wood, that's right. I forgot. Yeah. Right. It it was it was pretty, I mean, the cast went on to do some great movies after that. It's like the smallest name in here really is Clay Duval.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

So went on to do some good work as well. Really enjoyed her and Veeep while Angela and I watched that show.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Also didn't realize it until I did the rewatch. She was the ghost in Buffy, so The Invisible Girl. Oh, that's right. Of course. Yes, that's right. That's right. She beat the beat the shit out of that guy with a baseball bat in the locker room.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

That's right. Okay. So we've got some good ideas for recasting, not knowing where the story was gonna go. Where should the story have gone? If you could do it. If I could do it?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Alright. While your wheels are spinning.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Yeah, let him let him cook.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Let me throw you out what I what I'd want. Have you ever seen the film Daybreakers?

unknown 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Okay. Actually pretty good, by the way, and also a little bit underrated, like in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

So that's that's the one with Jamie Foxx, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

No.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

No. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Nope. Willem Dafoe is in it. Sam Neal is in it. Some great actors. Oh, Ethan Hawke. That's right. Ethan Hawk. If you haven't seen this movie, have you seen it? I do not know if I've seen it. Do me a favor. Check it out. That's a really good movie.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Oh, can I can I read you something that'll just Alright.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Do it.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

It's just funny because of what we went through. We're in the year 2026. This movie took place in the year 2019, where a plague transformed almost every human into a vampire. Which we had a plague that transformed everybody into a bedroom-bound drunk. But it always is kind of funny when like timing lines up like that. You're just like. Like, if Stephen King, I'm going off on a small tangent, I promise we'll bring it back, but obviously he wrote the stand, and everybody compared COVID to the stand, and rightfully so. Sure. Like that was very similar for, I mean, not the number of deaths, but just like what was going on internationally. Just imagine if he did write it and like he just dropped in 2019 or 2020 as a date. Like the people would be going insane. And I feel like daybreakers being along the same lines and kind of like not getting called out those timing lining up? I don't know. Just funny to me. Anyways, Daybreakers. I clearly have not seen it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So I'm a little bit ripping off, but also to be fair, they were a little bit ripping off, though, extending out the universe on what you know I Am Legend did, which Richard Matheson wrote decades before. So this story's been around a minute, but what I want to see is I want them to go hard into it to where it shows in the Great Buffy episode, in my opinion, maybe one of the best. And I think it was a two-part episode where Cordelia makes the wish with the with the demon that would become Anya, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

About what would happen if Buffy had never come to Sunnydale, right? And had never been the slayer there. And it shows the world. Do you remember this? These I think it was two part. It might have been one. I think it was two. Do you remember this?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Where it shows I remember it loosely as, you know, from watching it before, but I definitely need a rewatch.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Check it out. In my opinion, it's one of the best, but it shows what the world would be like if Buffy hadn't really become the slayer and hadn't come to Sunnydale, the Hellmouth had opened, all the bad things. And it shows the a world in which the vampires have taken control. Humans are very much the minority. It shows Willow and Xander's vampires, the master is still alive, all the things. Like, I want to see where things have taken, where the world got to where something happened. I don't know the the what, the mechanism. We come up with it. Something happens to where it creates the world in which it has been overtaken by vampires and in which Buffy has to come out of retirement, something that is a lot more mystical and you know, late later seasons Buffy-ish that revives, whatever the heck it is, yeah, has to re-has to fight against actual big stakes in which humans are the minority and in which vampires have taken over.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

So excuse me. So okay. I love that. One thing I wasn't super familiar.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

I gotta clear one thing up before I carry on. Was her role in the new one to kind of take over for Giles? I mean, we don't know. Because it didn't, it never came out, so nobody really talked about it. Like is there a is there a Giles or is that just we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

I mean, ostensibly, yes, that could have been the case. In some way, she was going to be a secondary character to the new slayer and to pass the torch along in some in some capacity. So probably yes. It was gonna be a Giles-like role. We don't know it.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yes, I'm mentor mentee, but she's not she's not the watcher. She doesn't read books, but that's okay. I digress. So she doesn't need them with the stakes that you're calling out. She doesn't need books so much as she just needs grit and stakes and you know all the badass. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Bad assery from the from what she's good at. I I like that idea.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

And honestly, I'm not sure if I was if I was given time to prepare. No, I'm teasing. But yeah, are I mean, are we remaining in Sunnydale? Like I think that that might be I think a location change would be necessary.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

And maybe I mean, I think if you just change the location and include some different types of characters, there's not a massive reboot that needs to happen because this is obviously a position.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Find the kind of situation. Sorry to interrupt, but like No, go ahead. Find the kind of situation where you can bring cool geographical features. Like for whatever reason, I was talking about San Francisco to someone earlier today while they were in San Francisco. You know, knowing that part of the lore and mythology of vampires is that they can't cross running water, depending on where you're reading it from, but that like they can't do it unless they're assisted. What about like San Francisco and where her and her home base is is Alcatraz, and she does it from there.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

And see that but that kind of plays into what I was gonna say, and I I think that that's that's a great idea. The the role of the slayer has been around for centuries. Like there's just always a slayer. So and the stakes change, but there's always a slayer, so it's like you change the location, you have to bring Buffy back to, you know, pass the torch, be the Giles, be the watcher. But if you moved it somewhere else, I'm not saying regurgitate the show and redo the whole show, but there doesn't necessarily need to be massive stakes. It's it's there's going to be just naturally with with the show. We don't need to because I like the idea of them being among the people rather than being the majority. Like I like this stuff happening kind of under the nose of everybody around. And that's like awkward, those awkward interactions of someone that's like walking into something that they're like, what the fuck just happened? Sorry. And, you know, the person turns to dust, and there's some civilian that just came out of a safe way. And it's like, I I dig that, which means like I'd want them to be in an environment where it's like still very people y, not fully taken over.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

All right, then let me challenge you. How do you then have it beats where it's not just a note-for-note reboot if you do it that way? Or remake even.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

I'm actually just gonna I'm gonna double down. Is that such a bad thing? Like we we're gonna acknowledge that the cast has to be changed, but we're already bringing back old characters.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Does it need to have a massive change?

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Like, you're gonna have a new antagonist. Like, obviously, the master the master is dead, right? Like, I'm not missing that in the end. Yes. What happened with Spike? Is he kicking around?

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Yeah, still alive. He Well, undead if you're undead. Was he where what was the what was the dynamic like towards the end? Because I know he was an antagonist, but then he was like a double agent for a minute, if I recall.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

I don't think I don't recall the double. Maybe for like a minute. Okay. A minute, not long. Him and Buffy became lovers at a point. Right. That's that's which was a bad story decision, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Neither here nor there.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

So I'm not saying bring back Spike.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

I'm not saying that. Oh, I am. I love uh Spike's great.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Well then let's bring him back. But if we're already bringing back Buffy and we're bringing back Spike and we're forcing them to like maybe the whole story is that she has to go to wherever he ends up, which is now turning into the new Sunnydale slash hell mouth slash problem area.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

And that's the story, but it's it you're right. Like on the surface, it feels lacking, but I don't think it has to be.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

And I think what changes because like something has I feel like something has to, like the tone has to change, or it's darker, and I think it does that, but in a much darker, aggressive way. Like what? Because otherwise it just for me I'm interested. Yeah, but it becomes too note for note.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Good. This is where the rewatch, I gotta finish.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

I'm gonna have to defer to you as the other EP in this project because I am at a loss right now. Oh. I need to clear this up though, before I forget. My embarrassing miss on Daybreakers. The Jamie Foxx vampire movie was day shift. Oh, okay. And so I got I got crossed up. But I felt better when I saw the name of the movie. I was like, oh okay, I'm not completely insane.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Yeah, that's I don't know what we changed.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

I don't know. And they we need to come back to this because it you are you hit it right on the head that it cannot just be a note-for-note reshot, reboot of the original. But I also don't know I don't necessarily think so much has to change. I thought that modernizing it, bringing in new blood, and changing the location would be enough to get it started.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Alright, I'm I'm intrigued. I'm down for watching it.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Who all comes back from the original show?

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Well, they already were bringing back Sarah Michelle Geller, so I I like that. Should anyone else come back? I think you're right about Spike. I mean, I loved the character when I saw it the first time. I'm loving him now. And if you're adamant as, you know, I I need to finish it, and if you're adamant that he like ends the ends the original run, like in a good not good light, like character-wise, but like you're like, oh yeah, this guy's awesome. The character's great. Like, that's almost like the Buffy version, like the he's like the watcher almost on the other side. Like he's the guy that brings all of this mayhem up. And I like that. But no, I think you I think outside of maybe occasional cameos, I would ditch most of the rest of the cast. I would just bring back those two.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Okay. Can I throw one more story idea out? Let's do it. Do you? Yeah. It's still riffing on mine a little bit, but it's something I was just thinking about. So if you're you probably don't remember how Angel ended.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

No.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

So Angel ended with you know things opening up, demons on Earth, and it ends with Angel and the his crew that is still alive at this point in an alleyway with these gigantic hell monsters coming, and he says, let's go to work. And that's how it ends. And who knows what happens. So what about you know, apocalypse is happening in Los Angeles, following the end of Angel, and when Buffy hears about it, comes. The only way to close this thing up is the blood of a slayer. It's the only thing that has the power to do it. And Angel is not gonna let anyone else do it. He he has to take care of it. So, in the same way, to have a nice, you know, mirror element to when Buffy had to put the sword through Angel to close up the hell mouth, right? And send him to hell, Angel has to bite Buffy and drain her blood to close up the hell hell mouth. When it does, it sends her to hell, she comes back as a vampire, and she is now the master and starts bringing about all of this stuff as the head vampire.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

You don't think I think people would lose their mind.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

They'd be s hey I enjoy the chaos, but I he I think people go crazy. They just like their their forever protagonist hero is comes back as the villain.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I'm I'm into it. I mean, how great would that be? Obviously, story arc that eventually has in the same way Angel was and was brought back and etc. Story arc to eventually get her back and redeem her and all that, but for a while, she's the master.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah. And it would work really nicely because she knows all the moves. Like you're it's like one of those you're you're fighting your equal kind of thing, that it it just makes the the entire situation that much more difficult that you're fighting someone that used to do what you did. And you could call it Buffy the Vampire. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

There it is. I love that. Okay. I don't know. I think that'd be fun. I think it would. I think that's our show. Random aside. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

One of the great things, slash one of the things that you know, maybe the nostalgia doesn't carry about some of these shows is the music. And some of these shows really leaned into the music of the times. You look at like a Dawson's Creek, for instance, which very much did. Buffy did to a lesser extent, but still.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Oh, no, I'm saying the bronze had a new band until Dingo A Dingo's Ate My Baby came, and then that seemed like the house band back.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

You're right. You just watched episode two, right? Or uh you've been watching season two, right? Yeah. Season two, episode one. Did you notice the band that was playing at the Bronze?

SPEAKER_02 42:40

I did, and I almost texted you. It was uh Chiba Mato, and they were playing Is it watermelon sugar? No. What's the song? It's sugar.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Did you actually just just disgrace one of my favorite bands of all time by saying that there's a by by saying a Harry Styles song? Is that what just happened?

SPEAKER_02 42:59

I absolutely did. And I wish I could take it. I'll clean that up in post.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Oh no, no, no. No.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

No, I never would. Oh my god. That is. You're gonna have to you can put me out of my misery.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

They were playing what might be their most well-known, recognized song, Sugar Water. Sugarwater. Which of course had the excellent music video by Michelle Gondry, director of Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind, and many outstanding music videos throughout the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Truly, you you showed it to me, and I've shown it to, I think, everybody I could after that. Truly the greatest music video, period, hands down. I cannot wrap my head around how they did that blocking and how they how they even filmed it. Like Same. Like I know that you are more adept on the tech side of it, but like if you can't unwind that, like that was so it's a good point to bring up.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

I mentioned I've mentioned And you know me, I'm the king of the non-sequitur.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

I mentioned to you one of my favorite movie podcasts being the Rewatchables, and its sister podcast is the big picture.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

The most recent episode of The Big Picture that just came out like a day or two ago has Steven Spielberg on it. Like an hour and a half long conversation with Steven Spielberg, in which he's talking about obviously his career, but a little bit about disclosure day, his new film coming out. Yep. But he's talking about, you know, the host of the podcast, while he's interviewing Steven, says, You're you're considered one of the greatest at visual storytelling and how things move through the the scene and the frame. How, you know, what how et cetera?

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

And he talked about, Spielberg talks about the importance of blocking and how it's something that people, filmmakers now don't look at as much. Like he's like, you look at like Turner Classic movies, you watch old films, especially, and you see how precise the blocking was.

SPEAKER_04 45:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

And how the movement through the scene worked, and it's kind of a lost art. It's why when you look at something like that, like like that music video for Sugar Water, to that point, like the artistry that is present and what can be done with a moving camera, when you've got expert, when you really understand movement through it, yeah, it's crazy. And that's a really good example of it.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

I think some of some of the reason blocking has gone away. And this is opinion, you'll correct me, because you actually are educated in this. It's it's the quicker cuts. There's not as many long shots as there were before. The camera used to be really still. They used to have to act in front of a camera that wasn't going anywhere. And now that there's so many cuts and quick and movement, it's it not as necessary to plan that out.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

It's not. And I mean, part of its style, and it can actually be effective style. Like you look at you look at Requiem for a Dream and what Aronofsky did with that, and the cutting became a style and a very effective one. But you're right, like they became a lot more reliant upon quick cuts and how that editing changed it. More cameras, a lot more cameras. Oh yeah. And and you didn't need to do it as much. And so it is it is definitely a lost art form, and they they they've gotten a little lazy in getting away from it. But it's something that when people still understand how to do it, it just jumps off the screen. You look at obviously Spielberg's a master at it.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

True.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Paul Thomas Anderson, absolutely fantastic with blocking, understands it. Christopher Nolan, outstanding. So, like clearly the best filmmakers of today still understand the art, but you don't have as many that do.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

No. They we do have some new ones though that are bringing back some of that old art. I know we've talked about link twice a couple times. Zoe Kravitz and her eye for that type of thing is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

She can be a great director if she wants to be. She really can.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

I I think I think she does one more movie half as good as that one, and she's gonna just be right on her way.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

I need to see her do like a hitchcocking thriller on a really aggressive, uh, a really aggressive level.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Yeah. So I know you gotta you gotta get out of here. I think this is a good place to end. We've we've recreated Buffy. And I think that's that's a noble feat. So we're just recreating everything.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Last week we recreated Lilith Fair, we're bringing it back. And bitch, we're bringing back the 90s.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

So, you know, Mr. Spielberg since you're obviously listening, and we've given you credit where credit is due. Just go ahead and like, you know, let DreamWorks be the money bags behind this, and let's fund this thing.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Yeah. Yeah. I'll uh you know, we get a couple seasons in, I'll call JJ Abrams, you know, friend of the show, and he'll he'll do the he'll do the movie.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I'm shocked that you didn't say Gracie Abrams for Buffy.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Gracie Abrams is not an actress, she's a very talented musician, and she could play at the bronze, but she should play at the bronze.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Okay. At least your at least your appreciation of her has its limits.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

It does.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Good.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

So thank you. Goodbye. Bye.