EPISODE 1: A Modern Lilith Fair?

In this episode of Cross‑Eyed Bear, Tristan and Chris dive into the legacy of the iconic female‑led festival, sparked by emotional Taylor Swift songs and a little self‑aware podcast banter. They explore Lilith Fair’s cultural impact, debate whether the moment is right for a modern revival, and dream up potential lineups blending ’90s legends with today’s biggest voices. Funny, thoughtful, and slightly ironic, it’s a nostalgic look at music, festivals, and whether lightning can strike twice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So, anyways, here we are. Episode one-ish, kind of, of Cross Eyed Bear. And then we start a pause. Um I imagine this will get less awkward and weird. The whole microphone thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

I hope it's always awkward and weird.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

That's fair. Yeah. So it's it's funny, I wrote this down a couple weeks ago. It's almost a good thing to start on. But like jokingly, I always kind of gauge the fragility of my mental state by asking myself one question. Will I or will I not cry to a Taylor Swift song on my drive into work this morning?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

So have you let's just let's take a step back. Have you cried to a Taylor Swift song on your drive to work?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Oh no, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Really?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

So which ones or one has done it?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Well, she's got this one. Um it's like I can hear it in my head. It's on 1989. Um Taylor's version, of course. Oh, of course. Yes. And it's like a B-side, it's not even, I think, on the original album. And Is it Is It Over Now, I think is what it's called.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I'm not good with all of her song tracks for what it's worth. Like I recognize all the songs, but not being an aficionado, I don't recognize the track names.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah, this is where we need Maya or someone to kind of guide us. I don't know. Is Maya in that?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

No. Maya would probably know less about my daughter, probably know less about Taylor Swift than I would, truthfully, at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Let's look it up. We're just gonna look it up. Okay. Because I I don't want to misguide all of the three people that are potentially gonna hear this. Um, yes, is it over now? It's from the vault, it is not on the original release. Okay, good song though. I mean, I actually think most of her songs are good. She's got a surprisingly the way she writes music is surprisingly approachable. Um, not surprisingly, obviously, she's a super megastar. Like it's so it's not a shock at all that she's like incredibly approachable. But there are a few people. I it's funny, I was gonna say, like, I'm not gonna talk about Taylor Swift, because I'm not gonna just start it off sounding as ridiculous as I am, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Well, I kinda the way I pictured this going was we got into our topic, which we'll get into at some point.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

But eventually I was gonna, I saw it going like, so let's address the elephant in the room and who we haven't talked about, which is Taylor Swift, as part of this conversation. Interestingly enough, and you buried the lead and jumped the shark.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Well, here we go. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Um what is it that we've been thinking about?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

We have been kind of shooting around the idea of Lilith Lilith Fair and whether or not we should bring it back. And who would the headline, who would anchor, all those all those things. Um, to set it up. I did a little bit of research, especially after this morning, this uh confrontation, I'll call it this morning. Um I'll I won't say I feel attacked, but who confronted you? I've been teasing. This is a conversation, this conversation we had with uh Noelle this morning. Oh, but Alance Morset was never part of Lilith Fair, confirmed.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Um so you're calling Noelle a liar, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yes. Well I am telling the truth for the what the truth is. Wow. But does not make me love her less. Just as facts are facts. But no, she was never part of it. And for anybody, this is the funny part. Gonna talk like there's like more than me and you that are gonna hear this. For anybody that isn't familiar, obviously, traveling music festival, created by Sarah McLaughlin, ran 97 to 99, um, highlighted, obviously was trying to attack attract attack, holy moly, the um music industry's gender bias and have proved that a female-led lineup could be profitable and make money. Ended up being the top-grossing tour of 97, raised $10 million to women's charities. So, big, big deal, especially then, massively successful, broke a lot of artists, and that was where I was just like, we were talking about Atlanta Smart Set. And I was always under this impression that she was a part of this thing. But what I found out was that she was so popular, she wasn't even in the same stratosphere as Sarah McLaughlin when this thing started. Like, literally, Jag Little Pill was 30 million plus copies sold. Sarah McLaughlin didn't even hit 16 million sales until after Lilith Fair. So it really was like flew in the face of what the whole thing was, which was to kind of highlight and break new artists. So it was not to give a platform to a superstar.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, but like okay, we're gonna dig into it, but a lot of those artists already were broken, isn't the right word? They had already made it in and were on the ascent. I just think that with Alanis, the problem is she was already at the her her pinnacle. Like, it was obviously a supernova situation, but has Alanis ever been more popular and more ever present than when you know a couple months after Jagged Little Pill came out? And over the course of that following year.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah, but that was 95. She was still touring like crazy for that for the two years after it was released, and like true, but then that that kept going, at least to your point, for two years.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Like she was super popular then. These other people I think had already been they'd already made it in. Like at this point with Jewel, you know, what at least and fact check me on this, at least Foolish Games and You Were Meant for Me had broken a singles at this point, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, I think that's why she ended up on the tour, but I don't think I know she was big, but we're gonna see. Um let's see, Foolish Games was released in GoTo album. Well that doesn't know me at all.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

And why I mean Fiona Apple already, like I think Criminal and Sleep to Dream had broken to singles, like she was already. It's just with Alanis, like her popularity, it was supernova really is the right word. Because obviously she was popular after that, and she had big songs after that, but it was it never matched what jagged little pill was.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

I don't think anything culturally has matched what jagged little pill was like that's a good point. That that's uh that is just this wild encapsulation of I mean they talk about it, it's it's it's female angst, as if I know all about female angst, let me tell you. Kidding. Um, but yeah, nothing nothing has matched that I don't think since let me go full circle until maybe the Eras tour.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

No, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Like going all the way back to Taylor. Quick side note question. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Um Do you think that Taylor Hawkins, rest in peace, obviously, uh was always saddened by the fact that he never was gonna work any with anyone nearly as talented as Alanis after he started working with that no talent hack, Dave Brol?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

You're such a troll.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Do you think that like he felt remorse over that, or just that like his drumming really shone because he was working with such an amateur as Dave?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

I've got a lot of opinions about Dave Roll. I've never considered him a no-talent hack. I do think that um he's good. I don't think he is as great as he is coming across. But no, I mean, I don't think you Foo Fighters is big. I don't think Foo Fighters was ever Jagged Little Pill big. I don't think truly it it's it's really crazy to think about it, but what really has been that big since '95. There's been things that have come up and one hit wonders and all this stuff, and like well, Taylor. And that's that's really it.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Taylor's it. So you could say that you could say that Lilith Fair because when did Jagged Little Pill come out?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

95.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

And when did Lilith Fair start?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

97.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

97. I mean, you could make the argument could Lilith Fair have started if Jagged Little Pill hadn't happened?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

And that is, I'm not sure it could have. I I think that as much as Sarah McLaughlin's platform was designed to um uplift women and create this whole um platform for them to be successful on their own, I do think that it was really helped along by the fact that there's so much success around another um contemporary, like a like a peer group, basically. Um but basically, if we're comparing Taylor Swift, so automatically, I think we want to bring it back, but she's not invited. It just won't work.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

No, she wouldn't, but it it brings up a good point. In the wake of the Ares Tour and how much of a cultural phenomenon that was, are conditions as ripe as they've been in the last couple of decades for this to happen.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

And that's I think so, but I also don't know who would do it. I was looking at people that we could bring to, you know, headline or tour, and you're you kind of are like, do you land with nostalgia and kind of grab that pure group that was like kind of brought up with Lilith Fair? Or do you go with new and try to break new? And so I was like trying to look at a mix of both, and I was like, oh well, shit, what would be a more perfect act for this than like Tegan and Sarah, who was immensely popular 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and obviously like women, lesbian kind of fits the scene. But I realized they were invited in 2010, like they were part of it. Um didn't realize that. Also, side note didn't realize that Tagan Quinn was catfished for a decade. That's a whole crazy story. But so they were already part of it. I was like, Well, Sia, already part of it. Metric, already part of it. Really? I didn't know that. I didn't think you did. I was just I was very surprised. Surprised enough I had to write it down because I was just like, metric played in 2010. So I'm like, alright, so who do we have left? Florence and the machine.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Okay, so I was thinking about this, and the interesting thing, now that we're getting into the meat of it, um who would play now? So to answer the question though, I think that you do need a mix of nostalgia and now. I mean, to be fair, one of the first acts, if not the first act that uh that Sarah got was Tracy Chapman. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

And Tracy Chapman, what, late 80s? Early 90s?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Was she that far back?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

That's when she got her start, I believe. Am I I don't know if I'm mistaken, but I believe that that was the case.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

We're gonna we're gonna look this up. Oh, I accidentally turned the reverb on you. You sounded very, very echoey there for a second. Nice. Yeah, I gotta get better with this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

No, I think it's fun. I think you should put like weird effects in like pew, pew, pew, pew.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Here, I have I have a pad right here. It's like here, let's do a quick applause. This is Chris. You can't hear it, you don't have headphones on.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Well, so like yeah, man, fast car came out in 1988.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah, on her self-title album.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

She won a Grammy in '89. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So that you could argue, not even argue, was nostalgia in place there too. So I think that you've got to have nostalgia. And I mean, you see some of the markers. Obviously, the Lilith Bear documentary came out last year and had a lot of people into it watching it. You saw the thing that uh uh Soleil Moon Fry did, what was it, the year before, a couple years ago? Also in Hulu, interestingly enough. That was really popular. A lot of people watched that. So I think that 90s nostalgia is a little bit here already. So, like having some of the people who were part of the probably especially key members on the original one would be necessary. So Sarah probably, of course, has to be involved.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

You'd have to involve her, of course.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Maybe this time you have Alanis as part of it. Um, and I think that that could fit in and slot in work. Cheryl Crow, great to have Cheryl back. Um, but then it got tricky when I was looking at the modern artists. Um I asked my AI DJ on Spotify to tell me who would be the modern modern headliners, and every single one of them it spit back to me were people who did it before. And then I literally had to like keep on refining it to get it to like only choose modern ones. And so for me, when I got to it, the people I came up with, and it's not an extensive list, nowhere near as extensive as it would have was in the 90s with that crew.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Well, if it makes you feel better, sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

No, please.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Uh in 2010, each show only had 11 on the main stage. I understand there's multi small stages and such, but that's so yeah, I'm not saying you might have 11, but the list wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Let's see if we can get to 11.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

So, okay, you mentioned Florence and the Machine.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Outstanding, yes. Um, do you think that Haley Williams slash Paramore, if that were to be Paramour again? I think that that would count as a headliner, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, I think Haley Williams. So she's she's touring again right now.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Um, I think that that would fit in nicely. I lower in the billing, still headliner. You know my feelings on Gracie Abrams. Friend of the show, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Is she a headliner?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Is she a head? Well, okay. She held her own for two nights at Red Rocks, um, which to me screams that she can hold her own, maybe middle billing. Like, not like okay. Main stage, not headliner.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Okay, I can accept that. I will also ask, is your intent with this just to bring or draw JJ Abrams here for it? Is that at least part of it?

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Well, if we can well, yeah, I mean, obviously he would be a guest. We would ask him about how he feels about the whole thing. And yeah, so um as soon as time frees up in my schedule, I'll interview JJ Abrams.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Okay, cool. Good. Um Alright, who who else do you think should be? Well, you mentioned Gracie, okay. Yeah, main stage, sure, but okay. So do we need 11 headliners or just 11 main stages?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

11 main stage.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Okay, all right. Um I was also thinking Brandy Carlisle's gotta be a headliner.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

You mentioned in conversation Hilary Duff.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

It's something I was thinking about because somehow she seems to be ongoing present. Like she's not a head, okay. Let's walk it back. She's not a headliner.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

No, but is she mainstage?

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Well, there we go. Because um, I I I kind of agree. Just because I see the way people react to her, um, funny story, somewhat anecdotal. We're walking through Disneyland, and we all but like run into her. And like, okay, yeah, like literally we're like wrestling a stroller around, and she's walking by with her stroller. I'm pretty sure she's pregnant at the time. And um we almost run into her. I have no idea what's going on. Steph all but like faints. Like, not really, but she's like cannot keep her shit composed at all. And I'm just like, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Did y'all say anything to her?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

We I mean I definitely encouraged her to. She was way too like, I'm not getting anywhere near that. I'm she's she's obviously at Disneyland, she's with her family. She's not when she doesn't want to be bombarded by fans, that's why she's wearing a baseball cap good and low. But like, she like had to stop and like compose herself. It was like such a just a star-struck moment for her, and I was like, this is hilarious, this is what Lizzie Lizzie McGuire, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Like, okay. Note to self-logged. If I can ever find the opportunity to get Steph into a situation meeting a famous person where she doesn't know about it and can prepare for it, do so to create um freak out. Yeah, it was done.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

It was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Done.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

But I do think I think she'd have some draw. Um, another one I wrote down. Um Mazzy Starr. I know half of Mazzy Star is gone, but Hope Sandoval, I think, is still kicking around. Does she have any any clout, any pole power still? No. No? No. This is just an this is just selfishly me wanting to see Mazzy Starr.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yes. So like I'm I'm in, you know, Mazzy Star, Portishead, etc. Like, have them be part of it, but they're not headliners.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Portis Head, I don't know if they fit. Beth Gibbons, though, second stage, maybe headline, second stage. Um, but yeah, it's like crazy when you really think about it, because this moment in time where all of these amazing artists like came together and did this tour. We can't, we're having trouble coming up with 11 relevant people.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Like it's just a it's well, okay. So I already mentioned I was seeing the future about the elephant in the room.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

But that's not to say I don't have a couple of other elephants in the room.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

So knowing that original Lilith Fair definitely brought in some people for cross genreslash different age group, etc., appeal, um, would that be desirous here? Would it still be Lilith Fair? Or if people of a certain star level, would it would it eclipse the mess overall? So, like, obviously, we just discussed Taylor Swift, and could she be part of this thing? And then certainly in the same category, I'll throw out Billie Eilish.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Oof, okay. Um Billy Eilish could. I you're not getting like it's it's not even logistically feasible to have Taylor Swift involved.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Like it's not, you're right, because it would just become a Taylor Swift concert.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

It would, and it would, I mean, he'd break Ticketmaster again.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Break Ticketmaster, everyone would show up for Taylor Swift's set. All of the people who are her fans would buy tickets. Theoretically, no one else would show up for any of the others, possibly. I I thought through what that process, but anyway, she can't be a part of it. Agreed. Agreed. Would it would it work with Billie Eilish though, or would that still be that same kind of a thing? I think I think because she would be the headliner if she was.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And this is where I'm so out of touch because it's like I know that she's had some hits, but like, is she really that big that she'd have to headline?

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Where are we at with like Alana Del Rey?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Actually, that'd be a great call. Alana Del Rey for sure should be part of this. Agreed. And she would be a headliner, yes. Um incidentally, obviously, big side uh side uh non sequitur here, but um, I was doing some research. Obviously, I'm reading the Dark Tower books, you recommended them to me. It looks like she quoted something from one of the Dark Tower books in one of her songs, but I need to dig back into where I was looking around when I came upon that. Um, Lana Del Rey for sure should be part of it, but Billy Isla should be the headliner.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Okay. I would uh I would take your uh I'm good with it.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Do you listen to much of her stuff?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Not nearly enough. It is weirdly it's one of those pre people that like I've always been exposed to very peripherally and I've not gotten into as much as I probably should with how much I just enjoy uh female-led uh bands and just musicians in general. Um but yeah, like she's her hit, she is popular, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And so since we're on the topic, if you ever need a good modern female vocalist to have a good cry to, um I I do need those often. Good. Um Billy, this is gonna be a good thing and a bad thing for you because I think the fields will hit deeper with her. I she's pretty talented. Um and she is not, I mean, obviously she's in the mainstream, but I don't think she's gone as hard. Taylor knows what she's doing, and God lever, and she maintains a certain amount of artistry. Billy, I don't think, is as nearly as calculated as Taylor is. That's not a dig on Taylor, by the way, because she's not doing a bad way. But she's not nearly as calculated as Taylor is, and I think it it just hits a little bit deeper.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah, I could understand that because you're right. When you like like I was saying earlier, incredibly approachable uh can paint a picture with like the fewest amount of words I think I've ever really seen an artist be able to create this like vivid image in your head with like a line. But it is it is surface, does not get deep. So yeah, I'm intrigued. I had Lady Gaga written down.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Um would that be too big?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I I'm leaning, yes, but god do I want to see her. Like I've never had the pleasure. And especially with that album she did with uh, was it Tony Bennett? Yeah, incredible. Like obviously a killer act that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

You know what I always come back to with her? I mean, obviously a lot of great songs, but the um um Olga Grief. What's the movie with her and Bradley Cooper? Starsborne. Yeah, I was it was like that soundtrack and obviously Shallow is outstanding, and then the song at the end, and I never remember the title of it, You Wanna Talk About a Good Cry Song, that's it. But the version that she does from that movie and on that soundtrack of Le'Veon Rose, have you heard it? Do you can you like place it? Um you saw the movie, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, I saw the movie, but I can't place it. I'm definitely writing this down.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Um check out her version of a star of uh LeVeon Rose. Okay, like obviously, respect Aid of Piaff, outstanding. I think previously my favorite version was Louie Armstrong's. But prior to hearing Lady Gaga's, because holy hell.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

It's so funny you brought up Louie Armstrong. I was just talking about that guy. That guy's obviously got the craziest voice. Um and I wonder it's like, would he have been even half of what he is? Like, would he have had the staying power if he'd have just sounded like uh another, I don't know, Sammy Davis Jr. or something. Like he needed that like really gravelly just well, the Louis Armstrong. I mean, people people try to emulate it, they just can't. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I mean, I actually do a pretty good imitation.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Are we gonna hear it?

unknown 25:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

No, I haven't drinked nearly enough to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Well, sounds like we need to go open something up. Um, all right. Well, there we go. We almost got 11 artists, I think. Um fair, it's coming back. We just made the decision for Sarah, and I will just reach out to her. Obviously, another friend. So, no problem.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

So, do we try and figure out to make sure and get a bigger swath of the younger demographic? And do we look at any of the artists who would capture that? So, like, here's the other elephant in the room. Someone like a Charlie XTX or someone like a Tate McCrae? Do they fit into this and understanding that this is still a business thing? Because obviously the intent of this originally was for Sarah McLaughlin to show promoters that hey, this would work and actually be super successful. Do you n do you want to try and get that big demographic that's not really served yet? Do you need to get that demographic?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

We have been quite selfish with our picks. Um. Yes, yes. And we are like writing out an entire We When we talked about it earlier, one of the big things was like singer-songwriter, like not, you know, somebody that actually is like creating. Uh not to suggest that they're not. That is um not what I'm getting at. But obviously, there's reasons you wouldn't invite like a RDB or something. Um as fun as I would find that to be. But Tate McCrae, my familiarity with her is lacking, which is why she didn't make the list. But I wonder, it's like, is she does she have that singer, songwriter vibe that um they tried to put together? You know, that's not even fair because I had Missy Elliott.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

And that's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So like And Queen Latifah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

So So yeah, hell yeah. I guess I guess that's the answer. If you can have the Queen, you can have Tate McCrae. And Olivia Rodrigo, I guess, for that matter.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Well, I was gonna say Olivia Rodrigo, I think, still has she obviously hits that demographic, but I think she still has the credibility as well. I think she does, am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 28:25

I didn't are you are we saying Tate McCrae lost credibility?

SPEAKER_01 28:29

I don't know if she's ever had the credibility. Like, has she earned that level of credibility with with people? I of being an artist, not just being an artist, a pop star or a country pop star, whatever you want to phrase it.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

I don't know. I don't think so. I know she's uh she's a she's a pop star.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Because Olivia writes some uh a fair amount of her own stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Um yeah. To the best of my knowledge, like that was kind of like going back to Gracie Abrams, writes all of her own lyrics and music. So it's like that that fits. Olivia Rodrigo, same boat. I don't know about Tate McCrae, and I feel like I need to do the research on that.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

So to be fair, I didn't really know about her either. And I was sitting at a restaurant um a handful of months ago downtown, and I saw hundreds, and I mean hundreds, of women wearing jean skirts and black boots. And I asked the person I was hanging out with, so what is going on here? Like, oh, it's the Tate McCrae concert. I was like, I I don't I don't know. And apparently huge, huge, huge sensation and thing, but I don't know if it's crossed my path because I think it's I don't know. I think it's it's in that style of a bit being a little bit more manufactured.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Yeah. Well, I mean, she's got some drawing power, so I guess there it is. So okay. To put a pin in it. Um, this is for sure happening. And we have a lineup, and we'll definitely um we'll etch our names in the Mount Rushmore of um regurgitating tours that somebody else created. Great. Two um middle-aged white guys bringing back a 90s-era tour for female-led artists.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

It's not weird at all, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

It's it if anything, it might be the most 90s thing on the planet. Actually, a good point. Like, like we're just leaning really hard into like just all of that male-dominated, but you're gonna be the face of it nonsense. Um, not gonna get into where that could go. Um alright. Perfect. All right, to this is this is just quick subject change, but real quick. Cause damn, we're at 32 minutes, bud. Watched, I won't say watched, caught the recap of the Oscars. I did have this written down, and I wanted to talk to you about it before the Oscars, but now we know how it all shook out. Cause I was gonna ask, like, Chalamer, Michael B. Jordan for best actor. Clearly, the Academy has decided. But I very quickly want to know your thoughts before we uh end it for the day.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

So I think just on the best actor one, we had talked about this a little bit. And I thought Chalamet was gonna win, and he would have deserved to win because you looked at Marty Supreme and the commitment to the role, he actually looked like he knew how to play ping pong.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Um, which is not an easy thing to just pick up, um and just the energy and kind of the manic insanity that was perfect for that character, I thought he deserved it. But you felt like you were watching someone put on a performance while watching Marty Supreme. You felt like I'm watching an amazing, a really, really great director do his thing, a lot of really cool stars, like or or guest stars, you know. You look at Tyler the creator and etc. etc. do their thing, and an actor at the top of his worm putting on a on a productant, a production, just a show. When I was watching Sinners, like I felt like I was there, I felt like I was in the environment, and I felt like I got to know both of the dudes that he played. And so I don't know. I think that I think they made the right choice, but it's not the choice I thought they were gonna make.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Well, he obviously had a smear campaign kind of going for a minute, like at the worst possible time. Um, but you kind of have right.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I didn't I haven't really dug into the whole ballet and whatever the heck things.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

They they were just you know anti-shalom.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

The decision was already made at that point, though, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

The the anti-Shalomet thing was getting hot, and I mean, in fairness, Michael B. Jordan did play two characters, which is just kind of fun in and of itself. The movie was incredible, both movies were incredible, um, which makes me like wonder why Marty Supreme got seemingly so snubbed. Like, did they Sinners came home with four? Yep. I don't think they won anything, did they? At Marty Supreme? I don't think they did. Like, I will say, as much as I get why Timothy Chalamet didn't win. I don't understand why that movie didn't win anything, though. Because from the supporting actors standpoint, I thought they had I mean what should it have won? That's a good point. I guess when you look at the awards, like the the people that won deserved a win as well. So it's I guess I'm just just excited about uh is it Kevin Leary or Kevin O'Leary? The businessman and Marty Supreme, the businessman from Trek Tank. Guy from Trek Tank.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Okay, yeah, yeah. Yes. I didn't the name his I never remembered his name or thought of his name.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

He's not an actor and somehow crushed it. He was excellent. He was excellent. Uh I agree with your twist that you were telling me a couple weeks ago about the vampire.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

It would have it would have been amazing. So, for those who don't know, I don't think it's widely publicized. Marty Supreme in the original script, it was going to end with his character, the the Shark Tank dude. Um they were gonna be at a Tears for Fears concert in the 80s. Marty was gonna be at a Tears for Fears concert in the 80s, and that dude's character was gonna come up and bite and reveal himself to be an actual vampire and bite him. Um, and and you know, drain his blood right there in the middle of the concert. And as we know, I think it was right before the Japanese match occurred, he made the comment to Marty about being around forever and having been born in this and being a vampire, and he said all these things. Obviously, you can take it as easy jokes, but they were going to make it literal.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

It almost feels like it needed to be literal because otherwise the guy just sounds completely psychotic. Well, he was. Um Yeah. But I don't know, it's more really off-the-wall shit to say if you're like he's like yeah, he's like, I'm I'm 616 years old. And I'm just like, why would why where'd that even come from?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

So I would have liked that twist. But I'm trying to think of the category that Marty Supreme should have won in. Was it nominated in Best Original Screenplay?

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

See, that's where I just caught the cliff notes.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

I think the screenplay was great.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Screenplay was outstanding. Could it have won screenplay over Sinners? Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

I say, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

I I'd say maybe that's where it should have won.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

I think so. Because Sinners was the right call for the score. Or the is yeah, original soundtrack, right? Definitely Michael B. Jordan was amazing for best actor. And then what was the last one? Was best wasn't best attitude.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

But then also, I mean, I feel like Ryan Kugler deserved to win something though for Sinners. Yeah, he didn't win best director, didn't win best picture, so maybe he. If we're doing looking at this as a whole, yeah, which come on, everything has structure and narrative and intent behind it, even if it's not, even if it doesn't purport itself to be, yeah. It does.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Um did Paul Thomas Anderson need to win both best picture and best director.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

No. I think and best adapted screenplay. So well, he didn't need to win best picture and best director by Marty Supreme didn't deserve best picture, so I guess that's where it did not.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

I think one battle after another should have won Best Picture. Yeah, but like for best adapted screenplay, I don't know. I'd argue after seeing Train Dreams over the weekend, Train Dreams maybe would have deserved it over that. That movie is insane, so good. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

No, I I wrote it down because I wanted to, I watched them both again because I needed to just come in with a basis of you know opinion. And I wrote down Marty Supreme, great, yeah, Oscar worthy. I don't know, but compared to what? That's exactly what I wrote, and I was like, and now seeing it all kind of shake out how it shook out, uh it kind of feels right, as much as I did enjoy it. But the nice thing that it has is it's gonna go on that list of you know, greatest Oscar snubs, or ten years from now nobody will talk about it, and that's how it'll just be.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

I think that's probably more likely, actually.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

The ten years from now nobody will talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Unfortunately, unfortunately, but you know, definitely movie the Zeitgeist, in my opinion. Could be wrong. I think so though.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

It is uh just another small encapsulation in time. That's all I got. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Alright. Alright, what's the next topic?

SPEAKER_00 39:09

You you wanna keep going?

SPEAKER_01 39:12

No, for for the next time.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Oh, next time, here we go. We wanted to um actually, what do you got?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Let me you came up with the this topic and a and a set of topics. I did. I'm gonna come up with something to try and mess you up or to to curveball you.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

I would love nothing more.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Um we yes, absolutely. Because I had I had some ideas. We had 90s remakes of old movies that actually worked. That's a small list. We don't have to talk long. Um Buffy and Angel, because obviously we have to both rewatch this.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

At some point that will happen.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah, no doubt. But yeah, it's your turn. Come up with a curveball. We'll we'll do it here again in uh cross eyed bear studios, aka the Hobbit Hole, or my office. And hopefully nobody walks in and you know, gets matted.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

I would enjoy special guest appearances in such a situation. So I would force them immediately into sitting down. I'll make sure I'll set the third mic up. Great.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

So, all right, that is all.